Religious Freedom and Circumcision? Where do the issues Intersect and How

Jun 2006
100,729
11,014
Vancouver
#51
I've long wondered why there is concern over FGM but not MGM.
Also, I think the reason it's been common in the US has more to do with conformity than hygiene.
It is now. But in the beginning it was money.

The groups lobbying like mad to stop medical associations from discouraging it, like they do everywhere else except the Middle East, is 100% about money.

This all reached a head in 2012 when the American Academy if Pediateics essentially admitted that they’d been lobbying for the “cultural” benefits of circumcision. Not any real health benefit for boys with standard .... parts.

“ Astonishing admissions from American Academy of Pediatrics

In response to this devastating avalanche of scientific evidence, the AAP has more or less conceded that its 2012 circumcision policy was not really concerned with the medical case for circumcision at all, but with cultural and religious issues. In an editorial accompanying the Sneppen/Thorup paper, Andrew Freedman, a member of the circumcision policy taskforce, makes the following amazing admissions:

Circumcision is basically and usually a religious or cultural preference on the part of the parents, not a medical decision.
Parents and medical advisers use medical evidence selectively to bolster their prior ideological positions on circumcision.
We did not recommend circumcision.
Circumcision is not necessary for optimum health.
Underlying aim of 2012 circumcision policy was to counter proposals to prohibit non-therapeutic circumcision of minors.
“Given the role of the phallus in our culture”, it is legitimate to consider non-medical factors in the circumcision decision.
Not all penises have to look the same.
The risk/benefit equation we devised (“benefits outweigh risks”) is applicable and relevant only to those who have non-medical (cultural, religious, social) reasons for circumcision.”
 
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Jun 2006
100,729
11,014
Vancouver
#52
As you can tell I’m not a fan. If my boys ever come to me saying they’d feel better if they looked like the guys in porn, then I’ll drive them to the clinic myself. Hold their hand through it. But until they choose it, I’ll just leave things where they’re supposed to be.
 
Likes: 1 person
Jul 2011
3,717
5,530
UK/Australia
#53
As you can tell I’m not a fan. If my boys ever come to me saying they’d feel better if they looked like the guys in porn, then I’ll drive them to the clinic myself. Hold their hand through it. But until they choose it, I’ll just leave things where they’re supposed to be.
Lol, I haven't noticed if the guys in the porn I've seen were circumcised or not (like that bit is not really visible when they are 'on the job', and one doesn't concentrate much on the males,) but I don't think they were. But I think you are right - when I have sons, I would never even consider having them mutilated at any stage - let alone as defenceless infants. That sort of barbarism might have been acceptable in the bronze age; but this the 21st century.
 
Sep 2016
1,587
212
Germany
#54
Most Jewish males are circumcised, at least in the United States and Israel.
or not. Totally unimportant "information" for me, Antijew. It's for me unimportant what the most Jews are doing or not doing. I am not "the most Jews" nor do I speak in the name of Jews. I said Jews, who are convinced circumcision is only a body harm, are not circumcising their children too. So I made clear not every Jew is doing circumcisions. You ignored what I said and gave an answer to your own thoughts, that's all.

[video=youtube;mSUXzPvCeYA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSUXzPvCeYA[/video]
 
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Sep 2016
1,587
212
Germany
#55
... Expert statement from the German Association of Pediatricians (BVKJ) (2012) ...
This "expert statement" ignores the psychological parameters what it means in Germany for a Jew that doctors give such a statement. This statement causes not social well-being under Jews. Under Hitler 50% of the doctors were convinced Darwinists and Nazis. Under the Commies doctors did not help everyone in the best possible way (for example not old men and women - take a look at the data of life expectation). What doesn't mean now that [other] doctors did not try to save Jews and others too.

So: In case of Jews in Germany the identification for the children of Jews with other Jews is much more important then this very harmless operation. Additionally no one reports about real problems, who had to do a circumcisions on whatever reason in Germany.

"Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being ..."
UNO, WHO

[video=youtube;FydgNE-VyIQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FydgNE-VyIQ[/video]
 
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Jun 2006
100,729
11,014
Vancouver
#56
I remember there was a country somewhere in Asia where, during some horrible civil war, men were checked for circumcision and killed if they weren’t. A quick “Muslim check” with no second chances.

Pakistan maybe?
 
Jul 2013
38,847
24,910
On a happy trail
#57
I still have mine, but I do remember a few kids having them removed.

From Wikipedia: Although tonsillectomy is nowadays performed much less frequently than in the 1950s, it remains a common surgical procedure in children in the United States and many other western countries. However, tonsillectomy is still a controversial surgery as its benefits seem to be only modest and temporary in most cases, whereas there are several indications that tonsillectomy may compromise the immune system in the long run, especially when performed at a young age.
Mine are long gone, by the age of eight I think.
 

Djinn

Council Hall
Dec 2007
50,823
37,250
Pennsylvania, USA
#58
My main concerns are quasi-legal and moral. What possible justification could give us the right to mutilate an infant at a stage of his life where he cannot possibly convey his feelings, let alone give legal consent? ...
Speaking as someone who was circumcised, I'm rather glad that the procedure was performed well-before I developed the capacity for long-term memory.
 
Likes: 1 person

HCProf

Moderator
Sep 2014
27,446
16,541
USA
#59
[tb] zaangalewa has been banned from this thread. Please do not respond to his posts. Thank you for your cooperation. [/tb]
 

Ian Jeffrey

Council Hall
Mar 2013
74,445
43,166
Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
#60
Speaking as someone who was circumcised, I'm rather glad that the procedure was performed well-before I developed the capacity for long-term memory.
Hey, I once got scoped in order for the doctor to look for bladder cancer. Only one way in for that tiny camera, and I have to say I would rather have another kidney stone than do that again. On the up-side, I did not have bladder (or any other kind of) cancer.