Republicans claim "job killing regulations" killed economy. Economists say no.

Dec 2010
36,825
28,615
Virginia
#1
Does government regulation really kill jobs? Economists say overall effect minimal.

By Jia Lynn Yang, Published: November 13

Beverly, Ohio — The Muskingum River coal-fired power plant in Ohio is nearing the end of its life. AEP, one of the country’s biggest coal-based utilities, says it will cut 159 jobs when it shuts the decades-old plant in three years — sooner than it would like — because of new rules from the Environmental Protection Agency.

About an hour’s drive north, the life of another power plant is just beginning. In Dresden, Ohio, AEP has hired hundreds to build a natural-gas-fueled plant that will employ 25 people when it starts running early next year — and that will emit far fewer pollutants...

In 2010, 0.3 percent of the people who lost their jobs in layoffs were let go because of “government regulations/intervention.” By comparison, 25 percent were laid off because of a drop in business demand.

Does government regulation really kill jobs? Economists say overall effect is minimal. - The Washington Post
Lets put the number .3 percent in context. This means that if 16 million people are unemployed, currently, then of that number 48,000 people lost their jobs due to government regulation. If this job loss is evenly distributed across all states it would mean 960 people per state lost a job due to government regulations.

I also find it intersting, that, it was reported that even in industries known for being heavy polluters (plastics manufacture, pulp mills, and steel industry) government regulations DO NOT cause a significant change in employment. Lack of DEMAND does.

Remind me again what rolling back EPA regulations will, therefore, get us other than air it's not healthy to breathe, water it's not safe to drink, and skyrocketing medical bills? You see, while EPA regulations don't appear to have much of an effect on employment, they DO have an effect on our health and our medical costs. Rolling these regulations appears, to me, to be yet another attempt by the right to socialize the costs of doing business by rellieving business of the cost of not polluting (an activity that would not occur but FOR their business) and shifting it onto the rest of us in the form of higher medical costs attributable to increased use of the healthcare system to address problems that COULD have been prevented had the regulations remained in place.

Somehow that just doesn't seem right.
 
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Jun 2011
1,474
217
#2
There's 14,000 cases pending in NJ's administrative courts.....FOURTEEN THOUSAND....now you know why they're burning down Indonesia for paper....of course to get there that administrative agency needs to make a final determination, so there is an enormous volume of administrative regulation being promulgated and imposed on the population.

Projects don't get 'done' in NJ - they get litigated....
 
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Blueneck

Former Staff
Jun 2007
51,523
36,945
Ohio
#3
Does government regulation really kill jobs? Economists say overall effect minimal.

By Jia Lynn Yang, Published: November 13

Beverly, Ohio — The Muskingum River coal-fired power plant in Ohio is nearing the end of its life. AEP, one of the country’s biggest coal-based utilities, says it will cut 159 jobs when it shuts the decades-old plant in three years — sooner than it would like — because of new rules from the Environmental Protection Agency.

About an hour’s drive north, the life of another power plant is just beginning. In Dresden, Ohio, AEP has hired hundreds to build a natural-gas-fueled plant that will employ 25 people when it starts running early next year — and that will emit far fewer pollutants...

In 2010, 0.3 percent of the people who lost their jobs in layoffs were let go because of “government regulations/intervention.” By comparison, 25 percent were laid off because of a drop in business demand.

Does government regulation really kill jobs? Economists say overall effect is minimal. - The Washington Post
Lets put the number .3 percent in context. This means that if 16 million people are unemployed, currently, then of that number 48,000 people lost their jobs due to government regulation. If this job loss is evenly distributed across all states it would mean 960 people per state lost a job due to government regulations.

I also find it intersting, that, it was reported that even in industries known for being heavy polluters (plastics manufacture, pulp mills, and steel industry) government regulations DO NOT cause a significant change in employment. Lack of DEMAND does.

Remind me again what rolling back EPA regulations will, therefore, get us other than air it's not healthy to breathe, water it's not safe to drink, and skyrocketing medical bills? You see, while EPA regulations don't appear to have much of an effect on employment, they DO have an effect on our health and our medical costs. Rolling these regulations appears, to me, to be yet another attempt by the right to socialize the costs of doing business by rellieving business of the cost of not polluting (an activity that would not occur but FOR their business) and shifting it onto the rest of us in the form of higher medical costs attributable to increased use of the healthcare system to address problems that COULD have been prevented had the regulations remained in place.

Somehow that just doesn't seem right.
That plant is right up the road from me and I not only know several people working there, I know people who are renting to workers, restaurant owners getting business from them, etc.

The money is trickling up, just like it always does.
 

michaelr

Former Staff
Dec 2006
89,668
6,642
FEMA Region 10
#4
This administration has been closing coal plants all over the country. They do this to smaller plants. GE of course is exempt from these regulations.

This is the work of the government, they're in business of creating monopolies for their corporate masters.
 

Blueneck

Former Staff
Jun 2007
51,523
36,945
Ohio
#5
This administration has been closing coal plants all over the country. They do this to smaller plants. GE of course is exempt from these regulations.

This is the work of the government, they're in business of creating monopolies for their corporate masters.
Not sure why you say that, but the fact is those old coal fired plants are dirty as hell. There's nothing wrong with updating our energy production. Less respiratory problems for people.
 

michaelr

Former Staff
Dec 2006
89,668
6,642
FEMA Region 10
#6
Not sure why you say that, but the fact is those old coal fired plants are dirty as hell. There's nothing wrong with updating our energy production. Less respiratory problems for people.
They are not that bad, they have scrubbers that keep them clean. We sit here and have ours shut down by the droves, yet China and others are allowed to build them, and so is GE. The myth of coal plants is just that.
 
Jan 2008
32,903
9,706
Vertiform City
#7
They are not that bad, they have scrubbers that keep them clean. We sit here and have ours shut down by the droves, yet China and others are allowed to build them, and so is GE. The myth of coal plants is just that.
Um.... asthma is typically three times more prevalent in coal-burning areas.
 

michaelr

Former Staff
Dec 2006
89,668
6,642
FEMA Region 10
#8
Um.... asthma is typically three times more prevalent in coal-burning areas.
That might be and I do not advocate the 'do nothing' approach. There are ways to make these plants cleaner and that would produce jobs. These idiots are putting the cart before the horse. They are actively shutting them down before new plants are built. We saw this with refineries and look how well that turned out.
 
Feb 2010
26,379
27,109
Sunny Bournemouth, Dorset
#9
There are plenty refineries. Big oil can point the finger at regulators, but the refineries they do have never run to capacity, because prices would drop. Coal plant scrubbers make it less dirty, they don't make it clean.
 
Feb 2010
27,367
1,963
#10
That might be and I do not advocate the 'do nothing' approach. There are ways to make these plants cleaner and that would produce jobs. These idiots are putting the cart before the horse. They are actively shutting them down before new plants are built. We saw this with refineries and look how well that turned out.
Refineries are operating at 83 to 90% capacity. The refineries were shut down because of inefficiency and outdated plants and to keep prices up.
Here are the facts, if you are interested in facts.
U.S. Refinery Utilization and Capacity