Russian soldier shoots dead eight fellow servicemen

The Man

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A Russian serviceman has shot dead eight fellow soldiers and seriously injured two more on a military base in the country's Far East, officials say.

Private Ramil Shamsutdinov - who has been detained - might have been suffering from mental health problems, they say.

The shooting happened in the military unit No. 54160 in the village of Gorny, not far from the city of Chita, on Friday evening.

A murder investigation is under way.

What is known about the shooting?

The shooting happened at 18:15 local time (11:15 GMT), Russia's Investigative Committee said.

The defence ministry earlier said that shots were fired during a change of guard at the base in the Transbaikal region.

Mr Shamsutdinov, a conscript, killed two officers and six fellow soldiers.

Russian media report that the suspect was targeting his victims in the head.

A special commission led by Deputy Defence Minister Andrey Kartapolov is flying to the region to investigate the shooting.

The military unit No. 54160 houses an artillery brigade and a missile brigade. It has Iskander missiles, which are capable of carrying nuclear warheads.

Military service is mandatory in Russia for all male citizens aged 18-27. They typically serve 12 months, and can then sign a professional contract to continue in the armed forces.

In the mid-2000s, rights groups reported widespread violence and bullying - known as "dedovshchina" - against new conscripts in the Russian armed forces.

But in recent years, Russia has prided itself for modernising the military and rooting out bullying.

Private Ramil Shamsutdinov, 20, with his parents in Tyumen region (Urals), where they are from

He was only on his 4th month of service and, according to reports from others at the base, was indeed bullied a lot by other, older soldiers. Many believe this is what finally made him snap. Very strange case. His dad, Salim, says Ramil had always wanted to serve, went to military patriotic summer camps as a kid; excelled at shooting and weapons handling in general. He set a record, apparently, taking apart and then reassembling an AK in 42 seconds...

He apparently wanted to become an officer; but failed to get into a military academy to do so; and thus had to serve as a regular soldier by draft instead.

It is possible, IMHO, that the disappointment of that, combined with the aforementioned hazing from the older troops (plus officers treating him, as a fresh conscript, like utter crap, which is the norm there too) would indeed have pushed this young fellow over the edge... :(

Kind of like this:

It is fashionable, today, over there, among even the generals themselves, to try to claim that the dedovshchina and all the accompanying disciplinary issues are a thing of the past, in the modern Russian military

Smarter people know it's bs, however...
 
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Private Ramil Shamsutdinov, 20, with his parents in Tyumen region (Urals), where they are from

He was only on his 4th month of service and, according to reports from others at the base, was indeed bullied a lot by other, older soldiers. Many believe this is what finally made him snap. Very strange case. His dad, Salim, says Ramil had always wanted to serve, went to military patriotic summer camps as a kid; excelled at shooting and weapons handling in general. He set a record, apparently, taking apart and then reassembling an AK in 42 seconds...

He apparently wanted to become an officer; but failed to get into a military academy to do so; and thus had to serve as a regular soldier by draft instead.

It is possible, IMHO, that the disappointment of that, combined with the aforementioned hazing from the older troops (plus officers treating him, as a fresh conscript, like utter crap, which is the norm there too) would indeed have pushed this young fellow over the edge... :(

Kind of like this:

It is fashionable, today, over there, among even the generals themselves, to try to claim that the dedovshchina and all the accompanying disciplinary issues are a thing of the past, in the modern Russian military

Smarter people know it's bs, however...
Oh well, not everyone responds well to the "break them down in order to build them up" style of training. To put it another way, you can't beat everyone with the same-sized stick. It seems that's a lesson that some institutions -- and some individuals -- have a hard time learning.

More's the pity.

Cheers.
 
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The Man

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Oh well, not everyone responds well to the "break them down in order to build them up" style of training. To put it another way, you can't beat everyone with the same-sized stick. It seems that's a lesson that some institutions -- and some individuals -- have a hard time learning.

More's the pity.

Cheers.
It used to be, like, a decade and more ago, before all the reforms and modernization, conscripts over there served TWO years, not just one, like now.

And back then (since WWII, really, at least) an informal ranking system developed among the soldiers, the conscripts.

1. salaga - new blood, young fresh conscript, the main target for all the hazing and mistreatment. Not only just getting beat up and such, but you are forced to wash the socks and underwear of the elder troops, and do whatever other tasks they make you do for them, a slave, basically lol

2. After about half a year in the ranks, you rose to the status of molodoi - "young one"; you still get no rights to anything, really, and little respect; but, at least, you don't get beat the hell out of so often or so much either lmao Plus, whatever shit you still get from the ones above you, you now can, in turn, take out on the poor new "salagi" below you...

3. Now, after a full YEAR of service, that is, half your mandatory term, you finally became a cherpak - "ladle", like what you pour yourself soup with lol Don;t ask me why such a term, I have no idea... But, it means you are finally free from abuse. You've made it to the upper castes. Now YOU get the better bunks, better food, and the "salagi" and "molodye" wash YOUR socks for you :D

4. When you make it to year and half, now you are a starik or, more common in modern, post-Soviet era, simply ded - either way, "old man/elder". That's where the word "dedovshchina" comes from, btw :) That's the coveted supreme golden status. You become the Tsar of your part of the barracks. The "salagi" and "molodye" worship you like a fucking God (or get beat mercilessly by the "cherpaki", who are your loyal henchmen hehe)

One of the main reasons this system actually lasted so long, is because nobody really wanted to change it. It was certainly useful for even the officers who, instead of enforcing discipline and order in the barracks themselves, could simply rely on the "dedi" and their "cherpaki" to be their enforcers... ;)

One of the main differences today, is the presence of contractors in the ranks. Some naive fools think this is solving the dedovshchina issue. But, it's not.

Because it's not like in America or here in Canada, the military contracts over there, majority of them don't simply enlist voluntarily either, it's mainly guys, as the article in OP notes, I believe, who served their mandatory draft term, and want to keep on serving, so sign up for more. "Dedi", who can now simply stay "dedi" forever, for as long as they are in the ranks. With constantly new "salagi" coming in for them to terrorize!

But, of course, again, some defend it, over there, that it is good for them, for the young boys, it "toughens them up" and "makes them into men"... :rolleyes:
 
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The Man

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He was threatened with RAPE, apparently. By OFFICERS, in fact. Bloody hell...



A Russian conscript who gunned down eight fellow soldiers in the country’s Far East last month acted in retaliation to hazing and a rape threat, according to his reported testimony and his father’s remarks published Wednesday.

Private Ramil Shamsutdinov, 20, was detained Oct. 25 at the military base where he served and charged with murder. The Defense Ministry was quick to blame the shooting on a nervous breakdown, while later reporting hinted at hazing within unit 54160 in the closed town of Gorny, Zabaikalsky region.

“That day, [the officers] promised to turn me out. They warned me that, like, they’ll rape me,” the Baza news website quoted Shamsutdinov as saying.

“I know they’d turned all the other young ones out before me. If that evening was my turn, I had nowhere to go, what should I have done?” Shamsutdinov reportedly said.

His father, Salimzhan Shamsutdinov, said earlier in the day that “constant, prolonged” hazing drove his son to carry out the mass shooting.

In comments to Russian media, he recounted his son telling him: “I’m sorry father, I couldn’t have done otherwise. Either they’d kill me or I’d kill them.” Shamsutdinov does not regret his “deliberate” actions, the father said.

Meanwhile, the head of a group called Officers of Russia denied the existence of hazing in the national armed forces and instead blamed violent video games for Shamsutdinov’s actions.

Baza, which did not say how it obtained excerpts of Shamsutdinov’s account, is known to have close ties to Russia’s security services. According to what it says was his testimony, Shamsutdinov said his hazing began with his superiors stealing his cellphone four months before the shooting and continued with physical abuse.

“Who do I complain to if the officers themselves beat me? I thought about running away but everything was closed. What was I to do?” Shamsutdinov said.

“The only thing I'm sorry for is that I accidentally hit two guys who had nothing to do with it. I have no pity for the others,” Baza quoted him as saying.