Socialized medicine foe goes to Canada to fix his hernia

[remington50]

The point is that a world class private specially hospital that attracts global patients EXISTS in a system where all citizens are fully insured by a public insurer. It succeeds and excels while still being subject to the regulations of the public health care system, and it also serves patients with no money, simply because they are citizens.

Yet they still can bill the citizen who is not covered completely from a reading from their website. They are only covered to the extent of the law. This would be a commentary on the quality of insurance for Canada. How MUCH is covered? “Public ward” rates. “Physician services.” I’m betting there is a bit more we don’t see on that bill.

It exists. It's a real thing. It works. Not perfectly, but it functions well enough for his doctors to refer him there.

His doctor referred him to a world renowned specialist. Why doesn’t my father’s doctor refer him there? $$$

Rand has spent decades claiming loudly and angrily that such things do not exist, that they are impossible, and he has specifically vilified and insulted those who suggest that facilities like this exist in Canada. Or Europe. Or Asia. Or Australia / NZ. He insisted that this clinic is impossible and stopped any discussion of it with indignation.

Feel free to quote him.

Until the second it inconvenienced him, personally, THEN he accepted reality. The minute his tummy stops hurting, the very minute, he will go back to insulting us and calling us liars for saying a clinic like this exists.

As will his ideological enablers on American Internet.

I wonder how much Canadians pay in taxes for their health insurance. :shrug:

Do you have a source for that? I’m just curious.

 

[remington50]

One that gets most of its funding from the government and also accepts the provincial health insurance.

Something tells me you don’t have a breakdown of the costs on who is footing the bill for Shouldice. It is required to accept that insurance. Which is paid for by taxpayers (which I’m curious to see how much it costs per person...but cannot deny). But you don’t seem to acknowledge their procedures. Things like skimming off unhealthy patients. 5 day public ward stay and then billing the patient for the rest.

It isn’t free. it is still paid for by the patient. Health care isn’t free. Still.

 

[Neomalthusian]

This thread is a perfect example of most people preferring to be political hacks about health care instead of thinking honestly about what changes should be made to the U.S. system.

 

[remington50]

This thread is a perfect example of most people preferring to be political hacks about health care instead of thinking honestly about what changes should be made to the U.S. system.

I agree actually. I see our system as having major flaws. Especially when it comes to negotiations with insurance and who foots the bill after insurance. Not a lot of people understand the industry. And they work very hard to keep it that way.

The fact that I have a deductible AND a copay? That’s a sham. The insurance company can also negotiate with me as a consumer and then the hospital. I don’t get to do that. And since the insurance can say “well we aren’t paying,” and I’m not a doctor? I don’t know if something is medically necessary and if the insurance is just pulling a nickel and dime scam. I also have out of network crap to worry about. And then all kinds of other things. I also may not be aware of what exactly I owe because the hospital bills me directly and I think I owe that instead of my copay/deductible and the hospital just takes payment from me.

We have some of, if not the best, emergency care in the world. Our wait times are low for non emergency care. Our pharmaceutical industry allows for the world to profit off our generics. We don’t suck. We are just different.

 

[Neomalthusian]

The fact that I have a deductible AND a copay? That’s a sham.

You should have either co-pays or deductibles and co-insurance. This is called cost-sharing and it's an extremely critical component of what helps keep premiums down. The attitude that health insurance is supposed to pay for everything is very bad for our health care system.

The insurance company can also negotiate with me as a consumer and then the hospital. I don’t get to do that. And since the insurance can say “well we aren’t paying,” and I’m not a doctor? I don’t know if something is medically necessary and if the insurance is just pulling a nickel and dime scam.

It's not a scam. Providers have incentives to provide care that is profitable to them and/or their organization, whether it's "medically necessary" or not. So what mechanism exists to make sure providers aren't lying about what's medically necessary? Payers (which is almost always the insurers), who hire their own health care professionals to review utilization and make sure fraud and/or abuse isn't going on. Patients aren't going to do it. The only way patients would aggressively examine a doctor's recommendation based on necessity and cost is if they're going to be paying the bill. But most of the time, people needing significant care are paying a small portion or none of the bill, so they have no incentive to hold providers accountable for providing only the care that's medically necessary.

I also have out of network crap to worry about.

As do we all. If your insurance plan doesn't network with any of the types of providers you need, then you can raise the issue with your insurer that they need to make an exception and provide in-network levels of benefit. I have done this before successfully, because there were zero in-network providers in my area, which means the insurance they sold me had a phantom benefit that couldn't actually be used, so they covered it as if in-network, or at least very close.

And then all kinds of other things. I also may not be aware of what exactly I owe because the hospital bills me directly and I think I owe that instead of my copay/deductible and the hospital just takes payment from me.

A provider can't collect double (from both an insurer and the patient). That's called fraud and is plainly illegal. They can bill a patient for something the insurer did not cover, but they can't double-bill.

We have some of, if not the best, emergency care in the world. Our wait times are low for non emergency care. Our pharmaceutical industry allows for the world to profit off our generics. We don’t suck. We are just different.

The political hacks on the left need to listen to Hillary Clinton about our health care system. She's said some things recently that are very cogent.

 

[Cookie]

Yes, who’s paying out of pocket for the specialist

For a politician in the US? The American taxpayer.

 

[Rev. Hellh0und]

For a politician in the US? The American taxpayer.

But you have no problem with dems partying on private jets in peurto rico..... lol


He's suing the guy to be reimbursed. I support this.

 

[Cookie]

But you have no problem with dems partying on private jets in peurto rico..... lol


He's suing the guy to be reimbursed. I support this.

Truth isn't something you embrace, is it? Until he gets the money from the guy, YOU are on the hook for the bill.

 

[Rev. Hellh0und]

Truth isn't something you embrace, is it? Until he gets the money from the guy, YOU are on the hook for the bill.

Democrat's partying on your dime in peurto rico during the shutdown, you don't care. you are butthurt one of your ilk injured paul and he's going to a specialist.


wow.....

 

[Cookie]

Democrat's partying on your dime in peurto rico during the shutdown, you don't care. you are butthurt one of your ilk injured paul and he's going to a specialist.


wow.....

Proof.