St. Patrick's Day Parade vs gay community

Mar 2012
55,487
36,978
New Hampshire
#1
Tensions are heating up in Boston as the city prepares for their famous St. Patricks day parade. It appears now there is a standoff.

"MassEquality’s executive director, Kara S. Coredini, said she was “extremely disappointed” that parade organizers decided to “continue their long history of banning [gay] people from marching openly.”
The statement from the organizers marked an abrupt change in tone after days of discussions brokered by Mayor Martin J. Walsh. Both sides met in the mayor’s office Sunday night, and it seemed that a deal was within reach to end the two-decade prohibition against gays openly marching.

“We were under the impression that negotiations were positive and ongoing, and we were surprised by the abrupt and hostile tone of the parade organizers’ rejection,” Coredini said. “We regret that the parade organizers shut down conversation before an agreement could be finalized.”



https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...-day-parade/vvS4SmF1SIpoQXz1cHKbOO/story.html
 
Likes: 1 person

Blueneck

Former Staff
Jun 2007
53,867
40,383
Ohio
#2
The controversy dates to 1992, when parade organizers refused entry to the Irish-American Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Group of Boston. The group won the right to march in state court, but organizers continued to fight.

The case went to the US Supreme Court, which in 1995 handed parade organizers a unanimous victory. The court ruled that although the parade was on public streets, it was a privately organized event protected by the First Amendment right to freedom of speech. The government could not interfere to prevent the Allied War Veterans Council from discriminating against gays and lesbians or any other group.
I kind of get that, you wouldn't want to allow, say, the KKK to march in a MLK parade. On the other hand, are there limits on what can be disallowed by parade organizers?

Earlier this week, parade organizers accused MassEquality of lying on its application by claiming it had 20 gay veterans who wanted to march. At a meeting in the mayor’s office Sunday night, parade organizers said, MassEquality presented one “supposed veteran” and a group of other marchers carrying rainbow flags.
Interesting. I don't think rainbow flags make them a problem if it's a restriction based on it being "family friendly" or something like that.
 
Oct 2013
14,015
12,604
Sweden
#3
I actually have to side with the parade organizers a bit. This holiday is about two things really...it is religious in nature and its a celebration of irish heritage/culture. Why cant they celebrate that without mixing it up with other things that might distract from that...do they also have to have womens rights represented (irish feminists?). How about a native americans rights group? NAACP group? Do they have a right to celebrate what they want without having other social issues take part in their celebration? They arent barring gay people from being in it or celebrating, I just dont think they want that issue high-lighted because the holiday has nothing to do with that issue.

I dunno, I see nothing wrong with giving them room to celebrate their holiday without having to incorporate other issues as part of it all. I wonder if it wouldnt be viewed as odd and even unwelcome if I wanted a "vegan group" in the LBGT parade....a whole other unrelated issue....and then add in all the others that can take up room....it would be easy to dillute anyones celebration or cause wouldnt it?
 
Likes: 1 person
Mar 2012
55,487
36,978
New Hampshire
#4
I actually have to side with the parade organizers a bit. This holiday is about two things really...it is religious in nature and its a celebration of irish heritage/culture. Why cant they celebrate that without mixing it up with other things that might distract from that...do they also have to have womens rights represented (irish feminists?). How about a native americans rights group? NAACP group? Do they have a right to celebrate what they want without having other social issues take part in their celebration? They arent barring gay people from being in it or celebrating, I just dont think they want that issue high-lighted because the holiday has nothing to do with that issue.

I dunno, I see nothing wrong with giving them room to celebrate their holiday without having to incorporate other issues as part of it all. I wonder if it wouldnt be viewed as odd and even unwelcome if I wanted a "vegan group" in the LBGT parade....a whole other unrelated issue....and then add in all the others that can take up room....it would be easy to dillute anyones celebration or cause wouldnt it?
I think it goes along with the "public square" argument. Are parades private or public events? Courts say parade organizers are private and have control over who marches, but I believe over the years several Irish gay community members have wanted to form a group and march but were denied that. Catholic church still holds a lot of sway especially in Boston. I suspect if one were gay and just marched in a group with others (Irish police, school etc) there would be no problem, but to have a specific "gay group" of Irish is out of the question. A lot of this trouble began when Catholic schools and groups said if the "gays" marched they would not.


Catholic School Pulls Out Of Southie St. Patrick?s Parade After Gay Rights Group Allowed To March « CBS Boston
 
Likes: 1 person
Oct 2013
14,015
12,604
Sweden
#5
I think it goes along with the "public square" argument. Are parades private or public events? Courts say parade organizers are private and have control over who marches, but I believe over the years several Irish gay community members have wanted to form a group and march but were denied that. Catholic church still holds a lot of sway especially in Boston. I suspect if one were gay and just marched in a group with others (Irish police, school etc) there would be no problem, but to have a specific "gay group" of Irish is out of the question. A lot of this trouble began when Catholic schools and groups said if the "gays" marched they would not.


Catholic School Pulls Out Of Southie St. Patrick?s Parade After Gay Rights Group Allowed To March « CBS Boston
I do have some sympathy for the argument, but I just think everyone can have a celebration that is devoted to a cause or specific holiday as long as they dont monopolize. I enjoy the gay pride parade...but there are thanksgiving day parades, vet parades, st patrick parades etc. I think its nice if we let as many as we can have their own moment and others can join in as they wish.

I should add, the holiday does have a religious basis so the catholic church response is logical.
 
Jul 2011
57,866
11,350
NYC/Москва
#6
Gays can march in the parade, they can't march as a gay organization. It's an irish-catholic parade.

Would you like to allow the westboro baptists to march in a gay pride parade?

How about catholics against gay marriage, can they march in a gay pride parade?
 
Likes: 1 person

RosieS

Former Staff
Mar 2013
9,260
7,755
Mother Mayo
#7
I do have some sympathy for the argument, but I just think everyone can have a celebration that is devoted to a cause or specific holiday as long as they dont monopolize. I enjoy the gay pride parade...but there are thanksgiving day parades, vet parades, st patrick parades etc. I think its nice if we let as many as we can have their own moment and others can join in as they wish.

I should add, the holiday does have a religious basis so the catholic church response is logical.
Not any more it isn't. When Pope Francis said "who am I to judge?" concerning homosexuality, that changed things.

Who are the Boston Catholics to put themselves above their Pope? That is heresy.

Regards from Rosie
 
Oct 2013
14,015
12,604
Sweden
#8
Not any more it isn't. When Pope Francis said "who am I to judge?" concerning homosexuality, that changed things.

Who are the Boston Catholics to put themselves above their Pope? That is heresy.

Regards from Rosie
Thats a squabble for the catholic church itself I guess. I am not a catholic. I have historically seen the church as pretty conservative and against birth control, divorce, abortion and homosexuality so it doesnt surprise me that they reacted this way. If their boss is telling them there is a policy change and they arent going along...to me thats a catholic issue and I just wouldnt feel its my place to even have an opinion on their internal issues and views.
 
Dec 2010
36,825
28,616
Virginia
#9
Not any more it isn't. When Pope Francis said "who am I to judge?" concerning homosexuality, that changed things.

Who are the Boston Catholics to put themselves above their Pope? That is heresy.

Regards from Rosie
Actually, it's not. Heresy is defiance of God.
What we have, in this instance, is a doctrinaire dispute.
 

RosieS

Former Staff
Mar 2013
9,260
7,755
Mother Mayo
#10
Thats a squabble for the catholic church itself I guess. I am not a catholic. I have historically seen the church as pretty conservative and against birth control, divorce, abortion and homosexuality so it doesnt surprise me that they reacted this way. If their boss is telling them there is a policy change and they arent going along...to me thats a catholic issue and I just wouldnt feel its my place to even have an opinion on their internal issues and views.
I am a former Catholic and current and former Catholics always have a lot to say concerning the Church.

This Pope has had many thinking of and actually returning to Catholicism. He does demand dialogue and working these issues out, which is exactly what this group of Bostonians refused to do.

They are directly in defiance of what Pope Francis says the Church is to be. They need to try again, and quickly.

Regards from Rosie
 

Similar Discussions