Thanks to foreign outsourcing of American jobs - economic mobility more likely in China than the US.

Dec 2011
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#1
The American Dream Is Alive. In China.
Imagine you have to make a bet.
There are two 18-year-olds, one in China, the other in the United States, both poor and short on prospects. You have to pick the one with the better chance at upward mobility.
Which would you choose?
Not long ago, the answer might have seemed simple. The “American Dream,” after all, had long promised a pathway to a better life for anyone who worked hard.
But the answer today is startling: China has risen so quickly that your chances of improving your station in life there vastly exceed those in the United States.
 
Dec 2011
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#3
So how do you feel when Trump talks about this and supporting tariffs? I found it strange to see Trump slamming China and supporting tariffs and the only democrats on board were Sens Brown and Stabenow, both in states that directly were affected by outsourcing.
We need something to counteract China's decades of trade war against America. But Trump has proven the least effective solution of them all.

Also: WTF happened to this forum? It's clunkier than anything I've seen before!
 
Likes: jorae
Mar 2012
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#4
We need something to counteract China's decades of trade war against America. But Trump has proven the least effective solution of them all.

Also: WTF happened to this forum? It's clunkier than anything I've seen before!
Updated the forum software awhile ago, does take some getting used to. :)
As for this issue, I have begun to consider things without Trump. He has a way of screwing around everything so I try to look at issues as if he wasnt there. So basically, how would I feel about this if say someone else was president? My views shouldnt change just because he is president. It kind of annoys me to see some out there siding with China just because Trump is against it. Sanders favored tariffs and was against trade as well yet you would never know it, I never saw dems side so fast with trade agreements! I am old enough to remember dems not overwhelmingly favoring NAFTA and wanting to see American products built. "Look for the union label" and all that. Now outside of a few crusty rust belt dems, the rest have changed. Its weird.
 
Feb 2011
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Boise, ID
#5
We need something to counteract China's decades of trade war against America. But Trump has proven the least effective solution of them all.
"Something?" Like what?

Also, the fact that people cited in the article were tilling wheat fields by hand like it's 1800 is telling. It indicates that China's political system economically repressed itself for centuries, and is now cramming a hundred years or more worth of economic advancement into a few decades.
 
Dec 2011
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#6
Updated the forum software awhile ago, does take some getting used to. :)
As for this issue, I have begun to consider things without Trump. He has a way of screwing around everything so I try to look at issues as if he wasnt there. So basically, how would I feel about this if say someone else was president? My views shouldnt change just because he is president. It kind of annoys me to see some out there siding with China just because Trump is against it. Sanders favored tariffs and was against trade as well yet you would never know it, I never saw dems side so fast with trade agreements! I am old enough to remember dems not overwhelmingly favoring NAFTA and wanting to see American products built. "Look for the union label" and all that. Now outside of a few crusty rust belt dems, the rest have changed. Its weird.
LOL I would never side with China. I'm just not also siding with Trump. I believe that tariffs created by Sanders would be crafted better and more effectively. Yeah it frustrates me that Democrats flipped like this so fast. But at the moment they're sounding quite sage because Trump is doing everything all horribly wrong. Democrats are going to have to re-visit this when Trump is gone.
 
Dec 2011
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#7
"Something?" Like what?
Probably more of what Obama did to fight China?

Also, the fact that people cited in the article were tilling wheat fields by hand like it's 1800 is telling. It indicates that China's political system economically repressed itself for centuries, and is now cramming a hundred years or more worth of economic advancement into a few decades.
Wow, way to spout irrelevant talking points.
 
Feb 2011
15,973
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Boise, ID
#8
Probably more of what Obama did to fight China?
Which was what?
LOL I would never side with China. I'm just not also siding with Trump. I believe that tariffs created by Sanders would be crafted better and more effectively.
How's that? What is it exactly that would make a Bernie tariff on China so much better and more effective than a Trump tariff on China?

It's definitely sounding like you have no real clue what you're saying, you're just trying to make up a reason why a policy is bad if Trump pushes it whereas the same policy would be good if a Democrat pushed it.

Wow, way to spout irrelevant talking points.
The article you posted talked about what it was like to be poor in China less than a lifetime ago. What I said about China is exactly in line with that.
 
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Mar 2012
51,000
33,650
New Hampshire
#9
LOL I would never side with China. I'm just not also siding with Trump. I believe that tariffs created by Sanders would be crafted better and more effectively. Yeah it frustrates me that Democrats flipped like this so fast. But at the moment they're sounding quite sage because Trump is doing everything all horribly wrong. Democrats are going to have to re-visit this when Trump is gone.
Its hard though look how the Iraq war vote was brought up again and again by the media and pundits against any democrat that voted for it. I just think its going to be hard to come out and say "yea I am against tariffs" and then be for them when somebody else gets power. Thats why I think Sherrod Brown and others in the rust belt are pretty brave to stand their ground. They know it will come back to haunt them someday and especially today as GM is shuttering plants in their backyard. Those workers blame NAFTA and want more tariffs.
 
Likes: HCProf
Oct 2018
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Somewhere they can't find me.
#10
Its hard though look how the Iraq war vote was brought up again and again by the media and pundits against any democrat that voted for it. I just think its going to be hard to come out and say "yea I am against tariffs" and then be for them when somebody else gets power. Thats why I think Sherrod Brown and others in the rust belt are pretty brave to stand their ground. They know it will come back to haunt them someday and especially today as GM is shuttering plants in their backyard. Those workers blame NAFTA and want more tariffs.


The goal was to bind Pacific nations closer through lower tariffs while also serving as a buttress against China’s growing regional influence. An independent study said that it would raise incomes and exports in the United States, but not jobs over all.

It was far from perfect (although I'm guessing it would have ultimately created more jobs in the U.S. thank Trump's policies), but TPP looks better and better these days.

(And yep, there were plenty of Democrats who were against it, too.)

Well, no matter. Looks like that junk has sailed.