The Afterlife.

Jun 2014
41,008
39,537
United States
Yes, he was. That is not, however, related to what I said, which is that it is not "preaching Judaism" to argue that Torah law need not be followed.

I have more problems with the religion started in the name of Jesus than just that.

Sure, they were. They were not called "Orthodox" back then (that term came much later, and was introduced by non-Orthodox Jews), and certain other things related to Orthodox Judaism came later, but the core of what is today called "Orthodox" existed 2,000 years ago nonetheless, which was (and is) the following of Torah law.

Oh, there were certainly Pharisees back in Jesus' day, and He certainly considered them heretical. That said, there was no such thing as Orthodox Judaism in Jesus' time, although I will concede that Orthodox Judaism was, for the most part, derived from Pharisaical Judaism. Orthodox Judaism doesn't even consist of a single, coherent group, but of many sub-groups, all of which consider themselves the only true version of Judaism. Orthodox Judaism has it's roots in Germany in the late 18th century, and Jesus was long gone by then.

Truth be told, throughout the entire history of Judaism, there have been competing factions. There really is no "original" Judaism. The religion has evolved in much the same manner as has any other religion known to mankind.
 
Dec 2015
9,704
5,724
In Your Heart!
I'm not even a homosexual, so Christian attitudes toward homosexuality are irrelevant to me personally.

Talk to the homosexual Christian to whom I was responding if you want to discuss whether Christianity properly embraces homosexuality.
NightSwimmer, you need to clarify whom you are specifically speaking about when you refer to "...the homosexual Christian...". Do you have any proof that they are homosexual and Christian? If so, present that proof or quit speaking as if you know each member's sexual orientation. Some members may defend those who are marginalized and discriminated against including me. But that is a far cry from calling them the name you have used.
 
Jun 2014
41,008
39,537
United States
NightSwimmer, you need to clarify whom you are specifically speaking about when you refer to "...the homosexual Christian...". Do you have any proof that they are homosexual and Christian? If so, present that proof or quit speaking as if you know each member's sexual orientation. Some members may defend those who are marginalized and discriminated against including me. But that is a far cry from calling them the name you have used.

I'm sorry if I misspoke. I thought that you had stated previously on this forum that you are homosexual. I hope that you won't take it as an insult that I misunderstood your actual sexual orientation. I certainly didn't mean to impugn your character by referring to you as a homosexual.
 
Likes: DemoWhip
Dec 2015
9,704
5,724
In Your Heart!
I'm sorry if I misspoke. I thought that you had stated previously on this forum that you are homosexual. I hope that you won't take it as an insult that I misunderstood your actual sexual orientation. I certainly didn't mean to impugn your character by referring to you as a homosexual.
Thank you for your clarification. I have previously said and will continue to say that I speak up for the little guy. The one with little or no voice who is often marginalized and relegated to being a second-class citizen. That includes, the Elderly, Women, Children, Gays and Lesbians, Minorities and others who are being discriminated against. I cannot stand an aire of superiority from those who believe they are better and far superior than someone else therefore, feel that they can speak with hate in their heart against them and denigrate them. That's why I speak up for them when the occasion presets itself. One must remember that a person need not be a homosexual to speak up for homosexuals no more than they need to be a woman to speak up for women's rights or a child to speak up for children's rights or a minority to speak up for minorities.
 
Last edited:
Sep 2011
23,027
15,325
aMEEErica
Here is a speaker with a lot of interesting points.


One that stood out to me, he says that if everyone had an out of body experience today, then there would be a global shift in consciousness, and people would realize that they are eternal and oh dear, are therefore responsible (to ourselves, mostly) for our actions in this world.

Lot's of insights here, this fellow started in 1971 and says he has had thousands of out of body experiences ("astral projection," self-induced) and seems to have given it a great deal of thought.

Thx :)
 

Ian Jeffrey

Council Hall
Mar 2013
67,565
35,231
Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
Oh, there were certainly Pharisees back in Jesus' day, and He certainly considered them heretical.
Indeed, though his consideration makes no sense, since Jews following the Torah cannot be "heretical."
That said, there was no such thing as Orthodox Judaism in Jesus' time, although I will concede that Orthodox Judaism was, for the most part, derived from Pharisaical Judaism.
The Pharisees were the Orthodox Jews of the day, and I have little doubt there were various sub-groups as well. Certainly, there would have been various schools of thought, e.g. Beis Hillel and Beis Shammai, cited extensively throughout the Talmud.
Orthodox Judaism doesn't even consist of a single, coherent group, but of many sub-groups, all of which consider themselves the only true version of Judaism.
While your initial clauses are accurate - and I am well aware, being an Orthodox Jew myself - your last statement is not true at all. Most of the differences between different Orthodox groups are based on varying histories and traditions, but we all agree on the basics of following Torah law - same Tanakh, same Talmud, &c. Furthermore, not all answers are known, and so some groups go one way while others go another way - and both are recognized as valid.
Orthodox Judaism has it's roots in Germany in the late 18th century, and Jesus was long gone by then.
What is today called "Orthodox" indeed has its roots there, but it existed long before that. The term "Orthodox" was actually applied by the Reform movement in the following century, and it was intended as an unkind reference.
 

Similar Discussions