The Humiliation of Aziz Ansari

Macduff

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Sexual mores in the West have changed so rapidly over the past 100 years that by the time you reach 50, intimate accounts of commonplace sexual events of the young seem like science fiction: You understand the vocabulary and the sentence structure, but all of the events take place in outer space. You’re just too old.
This was my experience reading the account of one young woman’s alleged sexual encounter with Aziz Ansari, published by the website Babe this weekend. The world in which it constituted an episode of sexual assault was so far from my own two experiences of near date rape (which took place, respectively, during the Carter and Reagan administrations, roughly between the kidnapping of the Iran hostages and the start of the Falklands War) that I just couldn’t pick up the tune. But, like the recent New Yorker story “Cat Person,”—about a soulless and disappointing hookup between two people who mostly knew each other through texts—the account has proved deeply resonant and meaningful to a great number of young women, who have responded in large numbers on social media, saying that it is frighteningly and infuriatingly similar to crushing experiences of their own. It is therefore worth reading and, in its way, is an important contribution to the present conversation.

Here’s how the story goes: A young woman, who is given the identity-protecting name “Grace” in the story, was excited to encounter Ansari at a party in Los Angeles, and even though he initially brushed her off, when he saw that they both had the same kind of old-fashioned camera, he paid attention to her and got her number. He texted her when they both got back to New York, asking whether she wanted to go out, and she was so excited, she spent a lot of time choosing her outfit and texting pictures of it to friends. They had a glass of wine at his apartment, and then he rushed her through dinner at an expensive restaurant and brought her back to his apartment. Within minutes of returning, she was sitting on the kitchen counter and he was—apparently consensually—performing oral sex on her (here the older reader’s eyes widen, because this was hardly the first move in the “one-night stands” of yesteryear), but then went on, per her account, to pressure her for sex in a variety of ways that were not honorable. Eventually, overcome by her emotions at the way the night was going, she told him, “You guys are all the fucking same,” and left crying. I thought it was the most significant line in the story: This has happened to her many times before. What led her to believe that this time would be different?
Was Grace frozen, terrified, stuck? No. She tells us that she wanted something from Ansari and that she was trying to figure out how to get it. She wanted affection, kindness, attention. Perhaps she hoped to maybe even become the famous man’s girlfriend. He wasn’t interested. What she felt afterward—rejected yet another time, by yet another man—was regret. And what she and the writer who told her story created was 3,000 words of revenge porn. The clinical detail in which the story is told is intended not to validate her account as much as it is to hurt and humiliate Ansari. Together, the two women may have destroyed Ansari’s career, which is now the punishment for every kind of male sexual misconduct, from the grotesque to the disappointing.
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/01/the-humiliation-of-aziz-ansari/550541/

This wasn't an assault or harassment. It was a bad date. This kind of thing will derail the #MeToo movement. You can't treat an awkward or unsatisfying sexual encounter like it was a rape. And you can't try to destroy people for it.
 
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My initial reaction was the sage.


But the key here is “pressure her for sex in a variety of ways which were not honourable”

THAT very much COULD be a form of sexual assault.

That line turns this from “what an outrageous ninny she is” to “well... wait a minute...”.

But yeah - might have given him the benefit of a fake name, since she’s giving herself one.
 
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Oh yeah. There it is. Check out the link.

“But the main thing was that he wouldn’t let her move away from him. She compared the path they cut across his apartment to a football play. “It was 30 minutes of me getting up and moving and him following and sticking his fingers down my throat again. It was really repetitive. It felt like a fucking game.”

Throughout the course of her short time in the apartment, she says she used verbal and non-verbal cues to indicate how uncomfortable and distressed she was.”

That right there is called a sexual assault.

It probably pissed her off seeing him in the #metoo pin.
 
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“He also physically pulled her hand towards his penis multiple times throughout the night, from the time he first kissed her on the countertop onward. “He probably moved my hand to his dick five to seven times,” she said. “He really kept doing it after I moved it away”
 
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“Ansari wanted to have sex. She said she remembers him asking again and again, “Where do you want me to fuck you?” while she was still seated on the countertop. She says she found the question tough to answer because she says she didn’t want to fuck him at all.

“I wasn’t really even thinking of that, I didn’t want to be engaged in that with him. But he kept asking, so I said, ‘Next time.’ And he goes, ‘Oh, you mean second date?’ and I go, ‘Oh, yeah, sure,’ and he goes, ‘Well, if I poured you another glass of wine now, would it count as our second date?’” He then poured her a glass and handed it to her. She excused herself to the bathroom soon after.

Grace says she spent around five minutes in the bathroom, collecting herself in the mirror and splashing herself with water. Then she went back to Ansari. He asked her if she was okay. “I said I don’t want to feel forced because then I’ll hate you, and I’d rather not hate you,” she said.




She told babe that at first, she was happy with how he reacted. “He said, ‘Oh, of course, it’s only fun if we’re both having fun.’ The response was technically very sweet and acknowledging the fact that I was very uncomfortable. Verbally, in that moment, he acknowledged that I needed to take it slow. Then he said, ‘Let’s just chill over here on the couch.’”

This moment is particularly significant for Grace, because she thought that would be the end of the sexual encounter — her remark about not wanting to feel “forced” had added a verbal component to the cues she was trying to give him about her discomfort. When she sat down on the floor next to Ansari, who sat on the couch, she thought he might rub her back, or play with her hair — something to calm her down.

Ansari instructed her to turn around. “He sat back and pointed to his penis and motioned for me to go down on him. And I did. I think I just felt really pressured. It was literally the most unexpected thing I thought would happen at that moment because I told him I was uncomfortable.”

Soon, he pulled her back up onto the couch. She would tell her friend via text later that night, “He [made out] with me again and says, ‘Doesn’t look like you hate me.’”

Halfway into the encounter, he led her from the couch to a different part of his apartment. He said he had to show her something. Then he brought her to a large mirror, bent her over and asked her again, “Where do you want me to fuck you? Do you want me to fuck you right here?” He rammed his penis against her ass while he said it, pantomiming intercourse.”
 

StanStill

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Oh yeah. There it is. Check out the link.

“But the main thing was that he wouldn’t let her move away from him. She compared the path they cut across his apartment to a football play. “It was 30 minutes of me getting up and moving and him following and sticking his fingers down my throat again. It was really repetitive. It felt like a fucking game.

Throughout the course of her short time in the apartment, she says she used verbal and non-verbal cues to indicate how uncomfortable and distressed she was.”

That right there is called a sexual assault.

It probably pissed her off seeing him in the #metoo pin.

Sexual assault feels like a game?
 
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Macduff

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“He also physically pulled her hand towards his penis multiple times throughout the night, from the time he first kissed her on the countertop onward. “He probably moved my hand to his dick five to seven times,” she said. “He really kept doing it after I moved it away”
Did she leave? At no point, was she physically restrained or forced and she stayed there the whole time with a man who was clearly trying to have sex with her.
 
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I think sex is an act between two adults, which means adults need to act and communicate like adults. This means there is dual responsibility. One adult should act and communicate like an adult, and the other should act and communicate like an adult. From the sound of it, both adults failed in their adult communication responsibilities during this encounter.

“Ansari wanted to have sex. She said she remembers him asking again and again, “Where do you want me to fuck you?” while she was still seated on the countertop. She says she found the question tough to answer because she says she didn’t want to fuck him at all.
If you don't want the guy to fuck you, then the question is not at all hard to answer. The word you're looking for is "nowhere," and further, the words you should say are "I am not going to have sex with you tonight. If that means you want me to leave, I will leave immediately. If you want me to stay, stop trying to get me to fuck you, because it's not happening."

If you don't know how to say those kinds of words, then you're not ready to date boys, whatsoever, and so you shouldn't. If you do know how to speak those words but what made it difficult for you to decide whether you should or not was your own mixed feelings because the guy was famous, then you're not ready to date famous boys, and so you shouldn't.

“I wasn’t really even thinking of that, I didn’t want to be engaged in that with him. But he kept asking, so I said, ‘Next time.’
Wrong answer. "Next time" is heard by the sex-crazed man as "I do want you to fuck me but you haven't convinced me to go for it yet," which to the sex-hungry reptile-brained man could be construed as an invitation to keep trying.

And he goes, ‘Oh, you mean second date?’ and I go, ‘Oh, yeah, sure,’
More wrong answers. Answering in any way affirmatively about sex when you are decided you do not want sex is the wrong answer. You're communicating very poorly which results in bad consequences.

The reason it "felt like a fucking game" is because your responses to his advances were fucking gamey. When you definitely do not want sex and want a man making sexual advances to stop, you don't use non-verbal cues and ostensibly hard-to-get playful chasing games to indicate discomfort while also acting like you're on the fence about sex. Ambivalence and cues and whiny hemming and hawing "next time" does not communicate your message. To communicate your message you need to use an assertive voice and direct, clear communication. If that doesn't cause him to stop and sit wide-eyed like a dog and obediently wait for as many dates as it takes for you to be ready, then he has no interest in dating you or having a relationship, rather he wants to treat you like a disposable prostitute, and at that point it's your decision to play that role or ditch him. And if ditching him requires doing whatever it takes to physically escape the apartment and remove your person from his presence, then do that. Leave your coat, shoes, purse, leave everything, if it's that bad. But it probably won't get that bad if you just communicate clearly and assertively, because most men do not intend to commit aggressive rape.

If you're not ready to directly communicate this shit, you're not ready or safe to date boys. You shouldn't date boys until you've figured out how to speak clear direct words that convey clear direct meaning.

As for men's responsibility, men need to learn to press pause on their fucking reptile brains for one second and understand there's some etiquette involved in sex which, if you pay no attention to it, you may well be accused of sexual assault. If this woman's account is anywhere near true (which I can definitely imagine it being), then the guy fucked this up too. That does not mean he committed "sexual harassment and/or assault," but you're pushing the risk that that's what you'll be accused of if you don't stop acting like a fucking animal. It's not sexy.

Dual failure of responsibility by these two adults. Shouldn't be considered illegal behavior, but definite dual failure of adult communication responsibilities. I don't feel too terrible for either one of them (again, assuming the woman's account is pretty much true). Two victims of their own respective idiocy.
 
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Macduff

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This kind of thing will derail the #MeToo movement.
And to this point. Go to social media and compare how many people are talking about this story vs how many are talking about Eliza Dushku's.
 
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Uh. I don’t know what to say.

This is a description of a sexual assault.

I don’t know what you’re reading.

She said that she verbally told him repeatedly she did not want to have sex. Then he pushed her head and hand into his dick. Repeatedly. After she repeatedly pulled away. Then he said to her face he understood she didn’t want to have sex that night. Then after saying all that he grabbed her and rubbed his dick on her ass asking where she wanted him to fuck her. Then she stormed out screaming at him.

In what world is this not a sexual assault? Pakistan?

She might be lying. This might not have happened. But what she described is not controversial. It’s not “on the line”. That’s criminal sexual assault.

If that IS how it happened he should be bloody grateful to her it’s only public humiliation. Not a lifetime on a sexual offender list.

Any further response should acknowledge the part where he told her he understood, then did it again. With his dick touching her. After acknowledging her clear statement that she didn’t want to that night. As I’ve posted above in post #5.

Otherwise its dishonest.
 
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