The Prince kissed Snow White without consent?

Jul 2013
1,279
1,701
U.S.A.
#72
Yes, and today we wonder how on Earth people allowed that stuff to continue without question or comment.

Just think of all the things we do today without question or comment that will be looked on with utter revulsion and dismay just a generation or two into the future. :D
If I could like this twice, I would. I've been saying the same forever. Usually -- though thankfully not always -- to disregard and disdain...

So it goes.
 
Likes: Coyote
Jul 2013
1,279
1,701
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#73
Fairy tales have always been amended to keep up with changing social norms.

Do you have ANY IDEA how fucked up fairy tales were before they were sanitized in the 19th century? Disney didn't produce movies based on the old versions because they would be LUCKY to get an R-rating*.




* In the U.S., an R rating means that a view must be at least 17 years old to see it unaccompanied. The next step up is NC-17, which means that viewers under 17 will not be admitted under any circumstances. Most theaters are reluctant to show NC-17 movies because they tend to be less profitable.
Yes indeed... You are perhaps familiar with the term "bowlderize?" After Mr. Thomas Bowlder (1754 – 1825)... In my youth I wouldn't have guessed that we were poised to enter another age of bowlderization, but here we are, well into it in various ways.

This observation may surprise some. But it shouldn't.

I mean, yes, of course there is a good deal more explicit material readily available than there was before the advent of the internet. Plus, what can be said and seen on television and to some extent in the movies is in some ways beyond what would have been permitted just a decade or two or three back. Nevertheless, I would argue that what is currently permitted is in some ways more tightly circumscribed that what was allowed thirty or forty years ago. Yes, it's true that just about anything is obtainable over the internet. Even so, there's a difference between what hasn't yet been successfully squashed and what is tacitly or officially condoned, no? In any case, currently there does seem to be an urge to censor and purify that is worrisome. Or so it appears to me.

So, yeah, it's curious that some of us think we might ought to further sanitize fairy tales that were already sanitized once upon a time. I wonder if eventually this will take us to the point where the very purpose of the myth itself is has been undermined. If so, I guess we'll simply invent newly refurbished, subversive myths to replace the now-toothless old ones.

Cheers.
 
Likes: Coyote
Feb 2011
15,375
9,825
The formerly great golden state
#74
Although there is a point, its a bit ridiculous. those fairy tales are very old, so of course things are going to be a lot different than today's standards.

But then again, movies and TV should not be the ones teaching right and wrong, its for entertainment. Parents should do their job of teaching kids,. ANd you can use watching it to teach them its not OK to do something in real life
Fairy tales have already been cleaned up a bit. For example:

Italian Giambattista Basile’s version of Sleeping Beauty is really dark – the king who finds the girl rapes her while she’s asleep. She later on gives birth (while asleep) and is awoken only because one of the kids sucks out a splinter under her finger which was keeping her asleep. The king later kills his wife (who tried to get him to unknowingly eat the children) to be with Sleeping Beauty.
more here
 
Jul 2018
775
871
North Carolina
#76
Fairy tales have already been cleaned up a bit. For example:



more here
Like I said - all of those are from the SANITIZED versions. The originals were pretty horrific. In the Brother's Grimm version of Snow White, the hunter was charged to bring back proof that he'd killed Snow White (who was seven years old in the original story). In order to save her, the hunter killed a boar, and brought the lungs and liver of the boar back to the Evil Queen - which she ate, believing they were Snow White's.

At the end of the story, the Evil Queen was captured. Her bare feet were locked into a pair of metal "shoes" that had been heated to red-hot temperatures, and she was forced to dance until she died.

Hi ho... hi ho... It's off to work we go...
I definitely noticed a pattern with the Brothers Grimm versions. I honestly didn't know about most of these versions of fairy tales.

My childhood was a lie ;):winktongue:.
 

Djinn

Council Hall
Dec 2007
49,575
35,732
Pennsylvania, USA
#77
I definitely noticed a pattern with the Brothers Grimm versions. I honestly didn't know about most of these versions of fairy tales. My childhood was a lie ;):winktongue:.
Most of the fairy tales we learn have been heavily sanitized. In the older versions (typically pre-18th century), themes such as rape, cannibalism, torture and dismemberment are disturbingly common. Every now and then, aspects sneak through; especially in nursery rhymes that most people don't think about. Consider, for example, "Three Blind Mice," or the last line of "Sing a Song of Sixpence" - assuming you didn't get a sanitized version. Then of course, there's "Jack and Jill," in which Jack appears to suffer a skull fracture. And of course "Rock-a-Bye Baby," which concludes with the baby plummeting from the branches of a tree.

Not to get controversial, but there's also the Lord's Prayer, which is a great way to get kids to think about death just as they're being tucked into bed.
 
Jul 2011
3,414
4,966
UK/Australia
#78
Bad lessons from fairy tales?

Kristen Bell reads every night to daughters Lincoln, 5, and Delta, 3. "It's truly my favorite part of the day," Bell says. "I glance away from the book and see their brains working while we're all cuddled up like meerkats." But the ladies don't just read, they discuss—especially classic Disney storylines.

"Every time we close Snow White I look at my girls and ask, "Don't you think that it's weird that the prince kisses Snow White without her permission?" Bell says she has asked her daughters. "Because you can not kiss someone if they're sleeping!"

Bell isn’t the only actress to take issue with Disney characters lately. Earlier this week Keira Knightley revealed that she prohibits her 3-year-old daughter, Edie, from watching certain animated classics. “Cinderella, banned because she waits around for a rich guy to rescue her,” she told Ellen DeGeneres during a recent visit to the talk show program. “Don’t. Rescue yourself, obviously.”
Knightley said she's a little irked by another movie, too. “This is the one that I’m quite annoyed about because I really like the film, but ‘Little Mermaid,’" she said. "I mean, the songs are great, but do not give your voice up for a man. Hello!”

Bell herself is working on a children's book, and the process has made her appreciate how far children's literature has come. Bell has old books from her childhood, courtesy of her mom, and says those are often outdated.

Kristen Bell thinks 'Snow White' teaches kids a bad lesson — here's why
Kristen Bell Worries Disney Princesses Teach Her Daughters Bad Lessons | Parents
Lol, I hate to be picky, but Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs is a Germanic fairy tale written by the Brothers Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm and published in 1812 - it is not a 'classic Disney storyline'. ;)
 

Ian Jeffrey

Council Hall
Mar 2013
72,228
40,318
Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
#79
Yes indeed... You are perhaps familiar with the term "bowlderize?" After Mr. Thomas Bowlder (1754 – 1825)... In my youth I wouldn't have guessed that we were poised to enter another age of bowlderization, but here we are, well into it in various ways.
"Bowdler."
Lol, I hate to be picky, but Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs is a Germanic fairy tale written by the Brothers Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm and published in 1812 - it is not a 'classic Disney storyline'. ;)
It is a classic Disney story. Disney's version just is not the original, obviously. But then, few of them are IIRC.
 

boontito

Future Staff
Jan 2008
103,086
91,535
Most Insidious
#80
Most of the fairy tales we learn have been heavily sanitized. In the older versions (typically pre-18th century), themes such as rape, cannibalism, torture and dismemberment are disturbingly common.
Art usually imitates life. You can bet that those themes were more common, not only in fairy tales of the time, but real life too.