The truth about torture

Aug 2010
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See you in a new existence!
The discussion of torture in this country has been in progress since 2001. There is no doubt in my mind that it is both immoral and goes against the very foundation of American principles. There is also no doubt that it's effective is very limited for the reasons mentioned in this BBC article. Yes, it can produce results, but those results are not worth destroying the very principles which founded this nation:

BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | The truth about torture
"I can take anyone on and make them talk, that's no problem"
Paul Van Vuuren, Former torturer
 
Dec 2010
36,825
28,616
Virginia
The discussion of torture in this country has been in progress since 2001. There is no doubt in my mind that it is both immoral and goes against the very foundation of American principles. There is also no doubt that it's effective is very limited for the reasons mentioned in this BBC article. Yes, it can produce results, but those results are not worth destroying the very principles which founded this nation:

BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | The truth about torture
The question is not whether you can make them talk, but whether the things they say are true, relevant, and timely. The problem with torture is that a certain percentage of the population will say ANYTHING to make it stop. I think the percentage is 99%
 

Jets

Moderator
Feb 2011
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New York
I do not mean to sound cliched, but if a bomb, missle, or other weapon is imminent (guaranteed to result in death upon detonation/impact), at that point the one percent chance of getting relevent information is worth it. imo.
 
Jul 2011
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USA
The truth about torture is that it is a distraction issue. We know three men were waterboarded, threse three men had information vital to national security, they were the enemy of these United States, responsible for thousands of deaths, and responsible for declaring war on the United States. Any American looking at the towers in NYC collapse knew full well we had dawned on a new day. al-Qaeda had been trying to send a war message for years via embassies in Africa or the USS Cole attack, an attack on that scale to any true American is an act of war, that was appropriately followed by our own act of war via the War Powers Act.

We have no idea what happened in waterboarding sessions, of afterwards. We don't know the extent of information given before...or after. If you consider waterboarding torture, fine. If you don't, that's fine too. Why we debate this comes down to a morality issue, it's a moral high ground game played, it's a forum game and doesn't address the big picture.

I myself for example utterly understand this is nothing but fake outrage. I'm not convinced there is single member of this forum..who actually cares about this issue, these three men being waterboarded doesn't bother anyone in the slightest is my position. You cried wolf too many times to fool an oldschool Blackbeard. And besides....even if the wolf is sometimes actually munching sheep....it is my opinion the herd needs to be thinned anyway.
 
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Dec 2010
36,825
28,616
Virginia
I do not mean to sound cliched, but if a bomb, missle, or other weapon is imminent (guaranteed to result in death upon detonation/impact), at that point the one percent chance of getting relevent information is worth it. imo.
Exigency is not a moral defense.
 
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Devil505

Former Staff
Jan 2008
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Florida
I do not mean to sound cliched, but if a bomb, missle, or other weapon is imminent (guaranteed to result in death upon detonation/impact), at that point the one percent chance of getting relevent information is worth it. imo.
The idea that torture is guaranteed to secure any desired information is a total fallacy. Many times torture will secure lies which won't be uncovered until it's to late to prevent anything....Many times torture will fail to achieve anything but blood lust for the torturers.
The GOP's advocacy of torture should point out the utter moral failing of its leadership today & it needs to be replaced by a moral/patriotic American conservative party that a Dwight D. Eisenhower or a Barry Goldwater would be proud of again.

The old GOP is dead!
 
Dec 2010
36,825
28,616
Virginia
The truth about torture is that it is a distraction issue. We know three men were waterboarded, threse three men had information vital to national security, they were the enemy of these United States, responsible for thousands of deaths, and responsible for declaring war on the United States. Any American looking at the towers in NYC collapse knew full well we had dawned on a new day. al-Qaeda had been trying to send a war message for years via embassies in Africa or the USS Cole attack, an attack on that scale to any true American is an act of war, that was appropriately followed by our own act of war via the War Powers Act.

We have no idea what happened in waterboarding sessions, of afterwards. We don't know the extent of information given before...or after. If you consider waterboarding torture, fine. If you don't, that's fine too. Why we debate this comes down to a morality issue, it's a moral high ground game played, it's a forum game and doesn't address the big picture.

I myself for example utterly understand this is nothing but fake outrage. I'm not convinced there is single member of this forum..who actually cares about this issue, these three men being waterboarded doesn't bother anyone in the slightest is my position. You cried wolf too many times to fool an oldschool Blackbeard. And besides....even if the wolf is sometimes actually munching sheep....it is my opinion the herd needs to be thinned anyway.
No. The point about torture is it's illegal and immoral. I realize this means nothing to many on the right, but one should take care, when fighting monsters, that one does not become a monster.
 
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Devil505

Former Staff
Jan 2008
73,489
31,647
Florida
No. The point about torture is it's illegal and immoral. I realize this means nothing to many on the right, but one should take care, when fighting monsters, that one does not become a monster.
It's already too late for many in the GOP.
 
Last edited:

Jets

Moderator
Feb 2011
23,937
14,960
New York
The idea that torture is guaranteed to secure any desired information is a total fallacy. Many times torture will secure lies which won't be uncovered until it's to late to prevent anything....Many times torture will fail to achieve anything but blood lust for the torturers.
The GOP's advocacy of torture should point out the utter moral failing of its leadership today & it needs to be replaced by a moral/patriotic American conservative party that a Dwight D. Eisenhower or a Barry Goldwater would be proud of again.

The old GOP is dead!
D,

I never said it was a guarantee, I just balance the idea of torture on one side and weigh it against the chance of saving lives on the other side. I concede, it is a lesser of two evils , but I cannot ignore the option if deaths are imminent.