The whole story re the 2 part scam of Trump, Ukraine, Guiliani and Manafort

Sep 2016
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The Ukraine Ambassador, Ms. Yovanovitch, works at the pleasure of the President.

The duty of the Congress is to oversee the executive branch including the foreign Affairs Department.

It's clear Trump thought that the Ukrainian Ambassador , Ms. Yovanovitchcz, had said something bad about him. That's his reason, fair enough. But who gave the President that information and why? The false statements are traced back to Giuliani. Giuliani gets the request from two men to get the Ukrainian Ambassador recalled and to try to get some guy that maybe they know that would be friendlier to them and over look
corruption. They are planning to get the Uk Ambassador to look the other way as they steel from the gov't run Ukrainian Gas Company. Giuliani tells Trump the names of these two men and he meets them. He understands that they are making huge contributions to his Pac. They tell Trump that they don't like the CEO of the Ukraine Natural Gas company and maybe he could get the President of Ukraine to fire the CEO . Maybe they tell Trump that the CEO is corrupt (wink, wink) . These two men know of another man that could be the perfect CEO at the Ukrainian Gov't Gas Company. Trump calls Perry and tells him what he wants done in Ukraine re the CEO and having him replaced with another guy. Perry has to talk to the guy that Ukraine has in their gov't that does the same job he does in the US. He explains what Trump wants but Perry's counter part in Ukraine says that's a big deal and he has to get the permission from the new President in Ukraine Mr. Zelensky.. Perry goes back to Trump and says if you want the CEO changed at that Gov't run gas company in Ukraine you have to convince President Zelenshy to give the OK;


If it all works out then this is what happens:

2. This is the secondary scam=The businessmen now have a CEO that they control in the Ukrainian gov't gas company. The two men opened a fake gas company that really doesn't exist, its just on paper. That's were the money comes from to give to Trump's Pac. The scam is to get the Ukrainian Gov'ts Gas company to send regular payments to this fake company owned by the two men ( now under arrest in New York.)They are arrested right now for election fraud by pretending they are American citizens and contributing to Trump. The bigger crime is committing fraud for a shit load of money from the Ukrainian Gov't. The scam puts money in the pocket of the two men that are Rudy's clients. They pay Rudy. Trump gets his money for his re-election. Everyone wins except the Ukrainian people and the American people.


Now the President may really have no idea that he is being taken advantage of in the gas scam but he is just happy that he's paid Giuliani back by doing him a favour. Pay him back for what? The work Giuliani is doing trying to get dirt on Joe Biden.

No crime here for the President if he knew nothing. Maybe for the last part but I'm not a lawyer so I don't know. A lawyer would have to answer if that breaks campaign finance law. I can tell you that if Trump didn't know about the whole scam he was at least gullible and is still guilty of the holding back of money from Ukraine to get dirt on Biden.

PS Giuliani is going to get indicted, I doubt he will turn on Trump .He'd expect Trump to eventually pardon him. . The two men that were his clients and are now charged and probably singing like canaries. I would think the FBI has a paper trail plus all the people that were witness' of the whole scam to show the men are facing RICO charges.

In addition to the two men that he was working with he also has to worry about Rick Perry and Pompeo and Sondland (maybe even Barr?) because they could turn on him and sing too. . What Giuliani was doing was clearly a part of a criminal conspiracy to defraud Ukraine and that is serious time.The other law he broke under election law pales in comparison.

Now I know it's a federal crime and Trump can pardon him but if Giuliani made one phone call from his home in NY to those men, to anybody as a part of this scam, even if he bought plane tickets in NY state that means he can be charged under State law and Trump's pardon would be useless.


1. The main hustle was to get dirt on Joe Biden for Trump's re-election and extorting Ukraine by holding back AID and a trip to the WH. That was at the urging of Giuliani who says to Trump you know who helped Victoria Toensing and Joseph diGenova,.(the married lawyers that appear on FOX ). They would really appreciate it if you could get their clients' case dismissed. Their client is Mr. Firtash who is in Austria waiting to get extradited to Chicago for charges dating back to 2013 involving alleged bribe payment to officials in India to secure mining concessions.

Dmitry Firtash, a wealthy Ukrainian is a onetime business partner of Paul Manafort.

Since Manafort was convicted using Mueller's report if Trump could prove that the Mueller report was wrong then he could pardon Manafort and use that as an excuse .

Trump would benefit because he could say that since the Mueller']s report was wrong and claim that he didn't do anything, Russia didn't help him bla, bla bla.

Giuliani has had visits to Manafort in prison; It would not be a surprise that the two men Giuliani was working with are friends of Manafort. I think Manafort concocted the whole thing=the main con was to get dirt on Joe Biden and get a story going that Ukraine helped Clinton in 2016 and it wasn't Russia helping him.. That also would discredit Mueller's report leading to his pardon, plus give Trump an excuse to say that the Russians didn't help him in 2016 and he was right all along. Manafort also figured out how to do it with his 2 friends helping Giuliani and repaying his friends with the scam that would make them millions from Ukraines Gov'ts gas company; The Cherry on top would be that his old business partner would get out from under charges he is facing in the USA for which he was awaiting extradition from Austria.



 
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  • Wow
Reactions: MaryAnne
May 2012
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You do realize that Mueller had already cleared Trump of any wrongdoing before this happened don't you?

The investigation was already over at this point.

You really need to fact check the stuff you post.

Mueller ended the investigation in March and this was going on way past that.
 
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Lunchboxxy

Moderator
Apr 2010
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You do realize that Mueller had already cleared Trump of any wrongdoing before this happened don't you?

The investigation was already over at this point.

You really need to fact check the stuff you post.

Mueller ended the investigation in March and this was going on way past that.
I think you need to read the Mueller report....
 
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May 2012
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I think you need to read the Mueller report....
I have and if there was anything in there then the democrats would have already filed articles of impeachment and Ukraine wouldn't even be on the table. Are you insinuating that they have some sort of proof from the Mueller report and are simply holding onto it?

lol
 

raj

Oct 2018
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I have and if there was anything in there then the democrats would have already filed articles of impeachment and Ukraine wouldn't even be on the table. Are you insinuating that they have some sort of proof from the Mueller report and are simply holding onto it?

lol


A) You didn't read it. Stop lying.

B) The most likely why reason the House didn't start impeachment proceedings on the basis of the Mueller report was because it required too steep a learning curve for most Americans whereas the Ukrainian scandal is so simple even conservatives can understand it.
 
Nov 2010
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A) You didn't read it. Stop lying.

B) The most likely why reason the House didn't start impeachment proceedings on the basis of the Mueller report was because it required too steep a learning curve for most Americans whereas the Ukrainian scandal is so simple even conservatives can understand it.
Great reply. Call most Americans stupid and then require them to see the latest scandal your way. Sounds like the winning combination that HRC put forth in 2016.
 
May 2012
70,482
14,290
By the wall
A) You didn't read it. Stop lying.

B) The most likely why reason the House didn't start impeachment proceedings on the basis of the Mueller report was because it required too steep a learning curve for most Americans whereas the Ukrainian scandal is so simple even conservatives can understand it.
So you are calling Americans stupid and you wonder why you guys lost the election.

lol
 

Babba

Former Staff
Jul 2007
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Great reply. Call most Americans stupid and then require them to see the latest scandal your way. Sounds like the winning combination that HRC put forth in 2016.
It's not that they can't learn the facts and details it's that most people are too busy to keep up with current events and the vast majority of Americans have not read the Mueller report and only hear sound bites. Hearings bring those facts and details out more slowly and it's easier to digest small bits at a time. That's what happened with Watergate. And in the case of the Ukraine phone call, because it was so obvious and simple the American people saw what it was immediately and the polls favoring an impeachment inquiry and outright impeachment jumped up almost instantaneously.