Theresa May in final push for Brexit

Aug 2012
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the Sussex Downs
Free trade agreements are not luxuries.

Anyone with enough sense to BE in a position of government authority knows damn well that just up and leaving the EU with nothing whatsoever established in its place would devastate Britain for 100 years. It would reduce it to practically third world conditions.

Being upset at how integrated the UK is is just confirming the truth that it IS that integrated. It cannot survive a sudden withdrawal.

No matter how clearly the voters insisted that's what they want - no one is insane enough to actually let it happen.
You sell us short -

No deal? No problem | The Spectator
 
Nov 2013
11,987
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NY
oh great.. a failed ex- Aussie Prime Minster to come to the rescue.

Tony Abbott lasted exactly 2 years as Prime Minster.
According to The Economist, his demise was a result of poor opinion polling, policy U-turns and gaffes and mean-spirited politics.

Tony Abbott - Wikipedia

Not sure what you think qualifies him to tell you how to move out of a 50 year relationship that he has never been in top begin with.
But, as said before, populists doing the thinking for you, creating your opinion.. best example here, again.
 
Feb 2010
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Sunny Bournemouth, Dorset
Perhaps it was a poor decision, but the people have spoken. No need to rush, but the opposition is delaying things in hopes of thwarting the decision of the voters, imho.
It was a rigged result. Had it not been advisory it would have been struck down. People have woken up to the actual meaning and have changed their minds, but neither May nor the official opposition will permit an informed vote.
 
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Aug 2012
3,452
808
the Sussex Downs
oh great.. a failed ex- Aussie Prime Minster to come to the rescue.

Tony Abbott lasted exactly 2 years as Prime Minster.
According to The Economist, his demise was a result of poor opinion polling, policy U-turns and gaffes and mean-spirited politics.

Tony Abbott - Wikipedia

Not sure what you think qualifies him to tell you how to move out of a 50 year relationship that he has never been in top begin with.
But, as said before, populists doing the thinking for you, creating your opinion.. best example here, again.
The reason that I chose the views of one from a commonwealth country is precisely because it is a view from a commonwealth country --- I could find more of the same but then so could you.

The EU wanted the UK partly for its wealth and assets and partly for its expansive trading relationships but it really does not actually buy anything from us worth mentioning - the same cannot be said for what we buy from other EU member states. There is no reason that any relationships business, manufacturers ect now have across borders should be harmfully affected by us leaving the Union - no way will Germany, France, Spain for eg want to pay tariffs on goods they sell to us.

The problem is the Commission whose sole existence is to look after EU interests, it cannot give an inch but as Lord Pearson says we could and should side step the Commission in further negotiations - as was my understanding early on that we should have been talking to the Council not the Commission.
 
Nov 2013
11,987
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The reason that I chose the views of one from a commonwealth country is precisely because it is a view from a commonwealth country --- I could find more of the same but then so could you.

[2]The EU wanted the UK partly for its wealth and assets and partly for its expansive trading relationships but it really does not actually buy anything from us worth mentioning - the same cannot be said for what we buy from other EU member states. [3] There is no reason that any relationships business, manufacturers ect now have across borders should be harmfully affected by us leaving the Union - [1] no way will Germany, France, Spain for eg want to pay tariffs on goods they sell to us.

The problem is the Commission whose sole existence is to look after EU interests, it cannot give an inch but as Lord Pearson says we could and should side step the Commission in further negotiations - as was my understanding early on that we should have been talking to the Council not the Commission.
ok, let's clarify some wording / nomenclature first:

[1]
Germany, France, Spain, etc.. will not pay tariffs on goods sold to the UK.. the UK will have to pay such tariffs, making the product more expensive, IN the UK.
EU countries would pay tariffs on UK products they buy, if the UK imposes such tariffs..
And as you said, the UK does not seem to have a lot to sell, but a lot to buy.. so this is an issue for the UK (which is why they want "a deal", and one that protects them the same as before, while they don't want to be a part of 'it" anymore.. this is where the whole mess starts).

The UK has profited from a free trade agreement with 27 EU members, being allowed to imprt tariff free much more than what they export.. a big deal, an advantage for the UK.

United Kingdom - trade balance of goods 2007-2017 | Statistic

[2]
Now, one thing i'd like to hear from you.. what is it that you think the UK has to sell, that the EU should buy, but doesn't ? What is the big wealth maker in the UK ? What do yo have to offer, better than the rest of the world, that is on high demand, but the EU just out of spite doesn't want from you ?

[3]
And for what other reason than goodheartedness should the EU keep all their advantages to the UK as they are today, when the UK openly says "we don't want you and your rules anymore".?
How would that be fair to all those other countries who remain in the EU, and pay their share ?

you're living in a dreamland, really...
 
Aug 2012
3,452
808
the Sussex Downs
ok, let's clarify some wording / nomenclature first:

[1]
Germany, France, Spain, etc.. will not pay tariffs on goods sold to the UK.. the UK will have to pay such tariffs, making the product more expensive, IN the UK.
EU countries would pay tariffs on UK products they buy, if the UK imposes such tariffs..
And as you said, the UK does not seem to have a lot to sell, but a lot to buy.. so this is an issue for the UK (which is why they want "a deal", and one that protects them the same as before, while they don't want to be a part of 'it" anymore.. this is where the whole mess starts).

The UK has profited from a free trade agreement with 27 EU members, being allowed to imprt tariff free much more than what they export.. a big deal, an advantage for the UK.

United Kingdom - trade balance of goods 2007-2017 | Statistic

[2]
Now, one thing i'd like to hear from you.. what is it that you think the UK has to sell, that the EU should buy, but doesn't ? What is the big wealth maker in the UK ? What do yo have to offer, better than the rest of the world, that is on high demand, but the EU just out of spite doesn't want from you ?

[3]
And for what other reason than goodheartedness should the EU keep all their advantages to the UK as they are today, when the UK openly says "we don't want you and your rules anymore".?
How would that be fair to all those other countries who remain in the EU, and pay their share ?

you're living in a dreamland, really...
'The whole mess' has nothing to do with trade at all. The reason for the Brexit vote is because of the devastating effect of EU rule upon every day life in the UK.

I have already answered you I'm not going round in circles with you.
 
Nov 2013
11,987
12,203
NY
'The whole mess' has nothing to do with trade at all. The reason for the Brexit vote is because of the devastating effect of EU rule upon every day life in the UK.

I have already answered you I'm not going round in circles with you.
You made the whole case about trade to begin with.

No need to answer, seeing you packing up in defeat the moment you’re asked to put forward some actual arguments to support the shallow word phrases you usually put out... speaks for itself.

Just see where you are, stop just repeating and quoting those idols you blindly follow, and try to make some actual sense out of it for yourself... you might be surprised what your brain comes up with, if you let it work.
 
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Aug 2012
3,452
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the Sussex Downs
You made the whole case about trade to begin with.

No need to answer, seeing you packing up in defeat the moment you’re asked to put forward some actual arguments to support the shallow word phrases you usually put out... speaks for itself.

Just see where you are, stop just repeating and quoting those idols you blindly follow, and try to make some actual sense out of it for yourself... you might be surprised what your brain comes up with, if you let it work.
I had already answered you over trade - you were taking us into a circular argument. No, trade is the narrative that those who control the narrative do not veer from - just as you do not want to now. You and they want to pretend that the EU is some cosy kind aunt or uncle who have, out of charity, taken in the UK. The numbers have already been published of who would suffer most under WTO tariffs, a tariff which the UK would chose, and it is not the UK which will suffer most - you can go and seek those numbers yourself if you are interested. WTO rules have already been set up to trade with the world under once our cowardly Parliament do what they are so handsomely paid to do.

Put your snide remarks in your pocket young man where it can privately tickle your own particular fancy without imposing it on others --- I voted Leave in 1975 as well as 2016 and I was right both times.

But trade was not why we voted Leave, it was a question but not the greatest. EU interference in our civil life was - including how we earned a crust, the closing down of industries which Thatcher is usually blamed for but actually industries demise came out of the European Coal and Steel Community included in the Treaty of Rome - where by from Brussels it is decided which industries shall serve the member states of the EU ie Germany was given Industry - our Farming industry was annihilated ie France got the initial Farming subsidies and later Spain and others to farm wat they were told to farm only. All done via EU Directives and Regulations which came out of the sub text in Treaties -- our Fisheries gone - Ship building, gone --- at one time 9 out of 10 men were out of work in Liverpool and the like. All that was left was the financial sector which is second to none - and the EU needs but that too was all about to be moved to Frankfurt.

Because of a stream of EU Service Directives all things, public or private, must be put out to tender now so we have lost all of our public assets and utilities to the EU now - as well as not being allowed to provide our own services = we were the only country in Europe whose central gov did not have an institutional presence in local admin, local government was more or less left alone to provide for its communities - The UK was build out of its municipalities as was, later, the welfare state . The monies acquired ( rates and such like) by the municipalities was ploughed back into the project ---- at one time, in my life time, everything could be and or was supplied by the local council, from homes, travel, libraries, roads, utilities, hospitals, schools, school meals, etc etc l - Since the Local Government Act of 1972 ( same time as entering the EU) which was drafted by Lord Redcliffe-Maud ( he described it as a 'holocaust on local government) slowly piece by piece by Central Gov legislation ( out of greed) and EU Directives ( ditto) all facilities are now in private hands and no moneies are ploughed back into the municipalities but into the pockets of the 'wise and the rich' fat 'EU pals' fucks --- the people are left bereft. I have spent the last four years studying the EU from the perspective of our once decent civil life and how and where it went - so could write a paper on it but most people only know that it has happened and that it is due to the EU because all over the show is their logo = we give them our money, they give us some back but tell us how to spend it and must put up their logo where we have spent it. And again the EU took local areas, some which date back to the Saxons, and split them into EU designated Regions ( 9 in Eng) - decide what they want done here tere and every were whether it is right or not for that area or could be better spent elsewhere in that area - te EU quangos, with offices in Brussels and the USofA, decide where this or that money should be designated and so on -

Oh anyway ---- I have wasted enough time on a brick wall this windy Saturday morn - things to do people to see .....................

What I am saying though is that ---- there is no trade within the EU. The EU is run from a central gov in Brussels as one entity - one state - one country. If it had simply been about freedom of movement of goods and persons I doubt many people would have a prob --- but it wasn't. I was about designating A to one area and C to another --- it was about totally restructuring each part of the One State uniformly and holding all assets in private hands - to be regulated as Brussels thought fit and so on and so forth. There is no trade within the EU. .
 
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