Theresa May in final push for Brexit

Nov 2013
10,332
9,783
NY
#51
You had some very popular figures, like Boris Johnson, say some very irresponsible things. People don't deserve to be blamed for being lied to.

They were told, things will be cheaper. Nope. They were told, we'll fund health care more. Nope. They were told, this won't cost much. Nope.

As for Johnson? He served a brief stint as Foreign Minister, accomplished absolutely fuck all on Brexit, and then left because May wasn't Brexity enough.

His career is over, he just doesn't know it yet.
Well, they deserve some blame... for every lie Boris Johnson told, the opposition provided the counter argument, and actual truth.
It was up to the electorate to go the lazy route of following the populists over actual information.
 
Jan 2016
46,390
42,325
Colorado
#52
Just for the record, the Bank of England has warned that a no deal BREXIT would trigger "a savage recession" in the United Kingdom.

I think they are quite right. This is something very much to be avoided.
 
Nov 2014
30,073
5,477
North Carolina
#53
The referendum was a 52 % - 48 %, pretty close call. And the day AFTER the referendum, Brexit was the most googled word within the UK.. meaning, only AFTER their vote, when faced with the decision, Brits actually started to look into hat that now would actually mean.

People often listen to populists and let them build their opinions for them.
Some actually said they did this as a protest vote, but never expected the final result to support their protest.. if they'd knew , they would have voted differently.
People often listen to populists because they are often right and describe their own personal struggles and experiences.

No one listens to a so-called populists for no apparent reason. There has to be at least a ring of truth to it - unless they are complete morons that is and just believe anything they hear. Which sadly come to think of it there are certainly people like that out there. So I'm not discounting that possibility. lol

But I doubt it.
 
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Likes: BarKnuckles
Jan 2016
46,390
42,325
Colorado
#54
The referendum was a 52 % - 48 %, pretty close call. And the day AFTER the referendum, Brexit was the most googled word within the UK.. meaning, only AFTER their vote, when faced with the decision, Brits actually started to look into hat that now would actually mean.

People often listen to populists and let them build their opinions for them.
Some actually said they did this as a protest vote, but never expected the final result to support their protest.. if they'd knew , they would have voted differently.
Yes. What you're describing in your last sentence there is the phenomenon of 'BREXIT remorse': people who voted in favor of BREXIT, but never thought it would pass, and now regret voting for it, or are even horrified that they did. Some of them only wanted to 'send a message' to Brussels.
 

Singularity

Former Staff
Oct 2009
30,643
23,744
Kansas
#55
People deserve to be blamed if they were fed obvious lies and fell for it. Especially if the benefits of being in the EU was as good as you say.
I don't agree. You don't understand Brexit, but it's not just because you don't live there. It's an incredibly complex topic.

It should never have been decided in a single up-or-down vote by the body politic. That's what representatives are for.

The only reason such a decisive vote occurred is because Dave Cameron wanted to keep his job against hard-right Tory rebels. That's pretty much it.

He ended up having to quit anyway, and here we are.
 
Nov 2014
30,073
5,477
North Carolina
#56
I don't agree. You don't understand Brexit, but it's not just because you don't live there. It's an incredibly complex topic.

It should never have been decided in a single up-or-down vote by the body politic. That's what representatives are for.

The only reason such a decisive vote occurred is because Dave Cameron wanted to keep his job against hard-right Tory rebels. That's pretty much it.

He ended up having to quit anyway, and here we are.
Sorry but I don't agree with you either.

Anyone who falls for an obvious lie deserves the blame. It makes no sense to me why someone would vote to leave an arrangement that was - as you describe - working out so well for them. That is a stupid thing to do and no amount of complexity is going to change that. But if you want to make excuses for stupidity be my guest. Just don't expect me to follow you.
 

Singularity

Former Staff
Oct 2009
30,643
23,744
Kansas
#57
Sorry but I don't agree with you either.

Anyone who falls for an obvious lie deserves the blame. It makes no sense to me why someone would vote to leave an arrangement that was - as you describe - working out so well for them. That is a stupid thing to do and no amount of complexity is going to change that. But if you want to make excuses for stupidity be my guest. Just don't expect me to follow you.
Maybe people need to be better informed, but the future of all political and diplomatic relations for a country should never be decided in a single referendum.

That is not what an elective system of government should do. People should elect representatives and officials to handle the complexities.

One of our great successes as a republic is that such nonsense can't happen here; U.S. constitutional amendments and other great matters of state don't happen via ballots.
 
Likes: BigLeRoy
Nov 2014
30,073
5,477
North Carolina
#58
Maybe people need to be better informed, but the future of all political and diplomatic relations for a country should never be decided in a single referendum.

That is not what an elective system of government should do. People should elect representatives and officials to handle the complexities.

One of our great successes as a republic is that such nonsense can't happen here; U.S. constitutional amendments and other great matters of state don't happen via ballots.
Why would you need to be informed if you were living it up under a economic boom produced by an arrangement with the EU?.

Those are results that can be physically felt by those involved. One does not need to be informed to know they have it good. To follow your previous metaphor - only a stupid person would vote for a new wife if their current wife was giving them great sex and happiness. So I don't find your argument they were just unaware of the complexities convincing in the least. Either they didn't have it as good as you say or they are stupid people. One or the other.

And sorry, but no - the success of our Republic has nothing to do with those idiots in congress supposedly handling complexities for us. That's absurd. Mostly all those corrupt fucks do is enrich themselves. The success of our Republic is due solely to the freedoms granted to us by our constitution and the limitations placed on our government - which has kept the populace content thus far. Though I emphasize thus far. Our continued success is by no means a sure thing - and the larger the minority gets in this country the greater the unrest. And Britain has been around longer than we have.
 
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Aug 2018
1,421
2,250
Vancouver
#59
May needs to resign. Today. This is absurd.

Parliament is demanding that the PM waltz over to the world's biggest trading block and dictate terms of their absolute surrender. The EU blinks numbly and laughs in her face. So she comes back and says there's no deal and Parliament says "we vote that there can't be no deal. There can only be a complete victory for us and capitulation by the trading block 30 times our size"

So back she goes....


She needs to resign and refuse to take part in it anymore. Enjoy her pension and watch everyone else explain why they're not going to take the helm.
 
Jun 2014
44,883
44,280
United States
#60
May needs to resign. Today. This is absurd.

Parliament is demanding that the PM waltz over to the world's biggest trading block and dictate terms of their absolute surrender. The EU blinks numbly and laughs in her face. So she comes back and says there's no deal and Parliament says "we vote that there can't be no deal. There can only be a complete victory for us and capitulation by the trading block 30 times our size"

So back she goes....


She needs to resign and refuse to take part in it anymore. Enjoy her pension and watch everyone else explain why they're not going to take the helm.

Oh well, at least they didn't promise that Israel would pay for building the Northern Ireland Border Wall©. ;)
 

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