Theresa May in final push for Brexit

Singularity

Former Staff
Oct 2009
32,729
26,879
Kansas
#71
A second referendum would be Illegal - unconstitutional.
The UK Supreme Court won't run rule that way, the ECJ has definitively not ruled that way, and all parties agree it could be done ... the only question is whether or not it should. The longer the Leavers take to find their own asses with both hands, the more likely it becomes.

The facts of the matter will be borne out in time ... and I predict the UK will still be a fully vested EU member one year from now.
 
Aug 2012
3,251
790
the Sussex Downs
#72
The UK Supreme Court won't run rule that way, the ECJ has definitively not ruled that way, and all parties agree it could be done ... the only question is whether or not it should. The longer the Leavers take to find their own asses with both hands, the more likely it becomes.

The facts of the matter will be borne out in time ... and I predict the UK will still be a fully vested EU member one year from now.
A hostage state you mean. We shall see --- but I tell you that the mood of the country is seriously murderous --- even many Remain voters are disgusted at Parliament's betray/ treason. For treason it is. Parliament are working beyond the law now, in desperation ............... Cowardice in Public Office or is that Corruption? It stinks what ever it is --- it stinks.

A second vote would be unconstitutional according to our constitution - as constitutionally, in 1971, we should have been asked if we wanted to join the Common Market but were not. Harold Wilson understanding that Ted Heath ( paedophile) signing the Rome Treaty was both treason and so illegal gave us a retrospective vote with only the pro side being given air.

In the last two years on the BBC only 100 and something people from the Leave side where given voice in debate, usually alone among a group of Remoaners, where as 2000 and something Remoaners were given voice --- we, Leave, have been put on the defensive called every nasty name in the book by Parliament and the Media ( bar the Telegraph) since that direct democratic vote that we had been waiting decades for. Barely a single program on the TV or article in the papers has touched on how we can put our selves back together again having lost everything that was decent about our society with a once decent civil life in Britain - nor from the pov of the cons of the EU and yet Parliament dare not even think about a second referendum because they know even more of the citizenry now would vote LEAVE - We all know people who voted Remain and have changed their minds, none of us know people who voted Leave and ave changed their minds.

The thing about the EU is that it is in every aspect insidious - it isn't taught in our schools - few understand it at all and all of it's treaties tens of thousands of laws, Directives and Regulations, which over ride our laws are written in sub text.

As for the Lords - Blair illegally swamped the Lords with pro EUers ( at the time pro Iraq war-ers) as has every PM since - and the EU court is just a ridiculously bloated monstrosity which even EU lawyers can barely understand - because 'the court' doesn't even follow its own precedence --- and then denies that it didn't and it is even run by the judges anyway - one has to ask when knowing how it works - BUT ok --- even so the PM cannot abitrarily revoke Art 50 nor do it without changing the law. Which puts Parliament in very iffy country - since by voting, if they did, to repeal or amend the withdrawal act - they would be voting, as they are now in theory, against the vote of the franchise. Parliament would be going against the will, by a direct democratic vote, of the people it is there to represent.


Now you can love the EU mafia as much as you like - can insult the British people as much as you like but do you honestly endorse a representative Parliament going against its people? If so that puts your voice on a different footing than you pretend it to be.
 

Singularity

Former Staff
Oct 2009
32,729
26,879
Kansas
#73
A hostage state you mean. We shall see --- but I tell you that the mood of the country is seriously murderous --- even many Remain voters are disgusted at Parliament's betray/ treason. For treason it is. Parliament are working beyond the law now, in desperation ............... Cowardice in Public Office or is that Corruption? It stinks what ever it is --- it stinks.

A second vote would be unconstitutional according to our constitution - as constitutionally, in 1971, we should have been asked if we wanted to join the Common Market but were not. Harold Wilson understanding that Ted Heath ( paedophile) signing the Rome Treaty was both treason and so illegal gave us a retrospective vote with only the pro side being given air.

In the last two years on the BBC only 100 and something people from the Leave side where given voice in debate, usually alone among a group of Remoaners, where as 2000 and something Remoaners were given voice --- we, Leave, have been put on the defensive called every nasty name in the book by Parliament and the Media ( bar the Telegraph) since that direct democratic vote that we had been waiting decades for. Barely a single program on the TV or article in the papers has touched on how we can put our selves back together again having lost everything that was decent about our society with a once decent civil life in Britain - nor from the pov of the cons of the EU and yet Parliament dare not even think about a second referendum because they know even more of the citizenry now would vote LEAVE - We all know people who voted Remain and have changed their minds, none of us know people who voted Leave and ave changed their minds.

The thing about the EU is that it is in every aspect insidious - it isn't taught in our schools - few understand it at all and all of it's treaties tens of thousands of laws, Directives and Regulations, which over ride our laws are written in sub text.

As for the Lords - Blair illegally swamped the Lords with pro EUers ( at the time pro Iraq war-ers) as has every PM since - and the EU court is just a ridiculously bloated monstrosity which even EU lawyers can barely understand - because 'the court' doesn't even follow its own precedence --- and then denies that it didn't and it is even run by the judges anyway - one has to ask when knowing how it works - BUT ok --- even so the PM cannot abitrarily revoke Art 50 nor do it without changing the law. Which puts Parliament in very iffy country - since by voting, if they did, to repeal or amend the withdrawal act - they would be voting, as they are now in theory, against the vote of the franchise. Parliament would be going against the will, by a direct democratic vote, of the people it is there to represent.

Now you can love the EU mafia as much as you like - can insult the British people as much as you like but do you honestly endorse a representative Parliament going against its people? If so that puts your voice on a different footing than you pretend it to be.
All elections are a matter of giving the government permission to try to enact certain policies and ideas. Within the Westminster system, if things are going poorly, it is the government's duty to either change course or call a new election to seek a fresh mandate.

Refusing to do so is more undemocratic than anything. There's nothing more to say other than "I get it, you hate the EU." I don't think most British people do.
 
Feb 2010
29,443
31,707
Sunny Bournemouth, Dorset
#74
All elections are a matter of giving the government permission to try to enact certain policies and ideas. Within the Westminster system, if things are going poorly, it is the government's duty to either change course or call a new election to seek a fresh mandate.

Refusing to do so is more undemocratic than anything. There's nothing more to say other than "I get it, you hate the EU." I don't think most British people do.
The original vote was tainted by illegality. Had it not been merely advisory, the result would have been voided by the Electoral commission. In spite of that, the nominal remainer May plunged headlong into committing to the most extreme version of Brexit available, under the populist banner of bowing to "the will of the people" despite that not being the case. Her "deal" has been rejected twice by Parliament, yet she is preparing to offer it, still unchanged for a third time, having run the clock down on any other option but crashing out without any agreement whatsoever. There are extremists actively pushing for this insane choice!

These times are interesting, that's for sure!
 
Aug 2012
3,251
790
the Sussex Downs
#75
All elections are a matter of giving the government permission to try to enact certain policies and ideas. Within the Westminster system, if things are going poorly, it is the government's duty to either change course or call a new election to seek a fresh mandate.

Refusing to do so is more undemocratic than anything. There's nothing more to say other than "I get it, you hate the EU." I don't think most British people do.
It was NOT an election, it was a direct democratic vote, and no government of the UK has the mandate to give away our sovereignty to a foreign power without the will of the people and or after having been conquered in war. The will of the people was to take back our sovereign power from a foreign power - no strings, no deals just to Leave the EU.

Your comprehension skills seem to be lacking because I have explained the question of the constitution on gov or Crown relinquishing up our sovereignty to a foreign power more than once over the last two years and somehow it just doesn't seem to get through to you.

I am not repeating myself again.
 

Singularity

Former Staff
Oct 2009
32,729
26,879
Kansas
#76
It was NOT an election, it was a direct democratic vote
That's what I'm saying. Direct democracy is a bad idea, and the aftermath of the Brexit vote stands as evidence.

Your comprehension skills seem to be lacking because I have explained the question of the constitution on gov or Crown relinquishing up our sovereignty to a foreign power more than once over the last two years and somehow it just doesn't seem to get through to you.

I am not repeating myself again.
OK, that's fine.
 
Aug 2012
3,251
790
the Sussex Downs
#77
That's what I'm saying. Direct democracy is a bad idea, and the aftermath of the Brexit vote stands as evidence.


OK, that's fine.
What anyone thinks about direct democracy is not relevant. Cameron called it because he had to but for all of the gov 'Remain' rigging and fear mongering propaganda did not get the answer that he wanted so ------------ they have gone against the vote. Parliament vs The People.

1) Cameron promised the people a referendum if the Tory's won the election. 2) Even though the Tory gov was unpopular people who have never voted Tory in their lives voted for them just to get our long called for referendum. 3) He won the election so had to call it. More importantly 4) By our constitution the franchise must be consulted on matters pertaining to our sovereignty - and these Treaties eat away at national sovereignty at every signing followed by the never ending EU laws.

The question on the ballot paper was Leave or Remain - nothing about a Treason May deal which would tie us into the EU forever without any input but our money of course --- our money - which the EU decides what we should spend it on. The aftermath is a Remain gov trying to scupper our vote. If they had done the right things 1) repealed the 1972 Act and Triggered Art 50 we would now be thriving instead of being on our knees with starving children and homelessness at every turn --- such poverty has not been seen since before WWI. But No - the corrupt greedy traitors in Parliament want their lovely fat EU pensions and the like and fuck the peasants - it is the fucking Normans all over again!

You have no idea how rotten the EU is .............. it really is an evil entity which first plunders and then taxes to death all of the nation states in its clutches.
 
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Singularity

Former Staff
Oct 2009
32,729
26,879
Kansas
#78
What anyone thinks about direct democracy is not relevant. Cameron called it because he had to
He convinced himself that he had to, just to stay in power.

Politicians doing things they don't believe in purely for the sake of expedience, typically produces poor results.

The aftermath is a Remain gov trying to scupper our vote.
Lol, the government's not pro-Remain. They've single-handedly made No-Deal Brexit a distinct possibility.

You have no idea how rotten the EU is .............. it really is an evil entity which first plunders and then taxes to death all of the nation states in its clutches.
Which is why the remaining 27 are pretty much united in opposing what the UK does, right?
 
Aug 2012
3,251
790
the Sussex Downs
#79
He convinced himself that he had to, just to stay in power.

Politicians doing things they don't believe in purely for the sake of expedience, typically produces poor results.


Lol, the government's not pro-Remain. They've single-handedly made No-Deal Brexit a distinct possibility.


Which is why the remaining 27 are pretty much united in opposing what the UK does, right?
 
Aug 2012
3,251
790
the Sussex Downs
#80
He convinced himself that he had to, just to stay in power.

Politicians doing things they don't believe in purely for the sake of expedience, typically produces poor results.


Lol, the government's not pro-Remain. They've single-handedly made No-Deal Brexit a distinct possibility.


Which is why the remaining 27 are pretty much united in opposing what the UK does, right?
All of the other parties were afraid of UKIP. Cameron knew that in order to be a part of a new gov he had to give us what we wanted and what UKIP promised, a referendum - but he expected to have to form a coalition with the Libs or Lab so felt safe in promising one if the Tories won. The Libs having betrayed students, in particular, in the last coalition with the Torys and with Scotland still voting nationalist not having Scotland and being pro EU, were annihilated - and Labour, which was and still is a mess, didn't quite squeeze in enough votes - UKIP vote not necessary the Tory's won ---- if he hadn't promised the referendum UKIP would have won many many seats. That was the situation. In cowardice he did not see his promise through though and 3 years later .............................. we still have Treason May torturing the whole country.

There is no no-deal brexit. We leave or we remain. full stop - there is no inbetween.

Are you talking about 'the elite' or about who has more muscle or and votes? Get away with ya ............ you really have no idea how it works do you?
 

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