Three Steps to Avoiding Poverty

Feb 2019
270
71
Florida
#21
You post ideology, nothing more.

Nope. I post facts and I back them up with reliable sources. And facts don't care about your feelings.

Yes, you did. His question was intelligent and entirely on-point.

Wrong. His question was totally irrelevant, unintelligent and totally emotional. Life is too short to pander to crybabies and snowflakes.
 
Feb 2019
270
71
Florida
#22
I've lived in Asia.

Which country?

Here's the thing.

They did NOT climb a mountain of competition. That is so rare you can effectively say it's impossible. The level of corruption and cheating in Asia is so fundamental to life there that westerners can't even imagine it. We think the deck is stacked here? By God, we're not even in their universe of libertarian dog-eat-dog.

Which country was that?

If you want to stay out of grinding poverty in India you bribe the teacher. Period. That's it
. The kid in China who gives the biggest envelope of cash to his test administrator gets to go to college. Period. End of evaluation criteria.

If you're broke, where do you get the money from to bribe the teacher? Are you accusing the achievers from China and India of being thieves?


The ONLY way out of poverty there is having enough money to buy your way out. And that doesn't seem very likely, does it.


See THIS is why liberals lose so many arguments. You people live in LA LA land. You somehow think it's possible to buy one's way out of poverty, after I gave you several inspiring examples of people who EARNED THEIR WAY OUT OF POVERTY.

Why are you so physically allergic to the term: EARN?
 

Djinn

Council Hall
Dec 2007
49,105
35,025
Pennsylvania, USA
#23
...

  • 80 percent of poor households have air conditioning. In 1970, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
  • 92 percent of poor households have a microwave.
  • Nearly three-fourths have a car or truck, and 31 percent have two or more cars or trucks.
  • Nearly two-thirds have cable or satellite TV.
  • Two-thirds have at least one DVD player, and 70 percent have a VCR.
  • Half have a personal computer, and one in seven have two or more computers.
  • More than half of poor families with children have a video game system, such as an Xbox or PlayStation.
  • 43 percent have Internet access.
  • One-third have a wide-screen plasma or LCD TV.
  • One-fourth have a digital video recorder system, such as a TiVo.
Oh, come on... Look at these bullet points, and you can see that at the very least, the data is obsolete. And it's not limited to luxuries.

There is no way that 70% of ANY household demographics have a VCR. The last VCR manufacturing company ceased operation in 2016.
Internet access is a necessity when getting a job, since most jobs are not posted in the classified section of the newspaper.
A "wide screen plasma or LCD TV" - when is the last time you saw any other kind of TV for sale?
And given the advent of cloud-based services, I'm sure that the DVR rate is now way below 40%.
 
Jun 2013
17,026
14,523
Here
#24
Really? Clarence Thomas was born into poverty. He worked his way out.
Oprah Winfrey was born into poverty. (Net worth $3 billion)
John Paul DeJoria, (hair care empire and Patron Tequila creator) lived in his car. (net worth $2.9 billion)
Larry Ellison, Co-Founder of Oracle, was born to a single mother, worked odd jobs for eight years. (Net worth $49 billion)

There are lots of other examples:
17 Billionaires Who Started Out Dirt Poor

I found this out when I met an international trader a few years back. He was dealing in the Far East. He told me the vast majority of China's population is dirt poor, actually starving, and they are mostly illiterate. The high achieving Chinese we see today are those who have had to climb an extremely high mountain in competition to get to the big cities in China and then to emigrate to America. I didn't know that. He also said India is an extremely crowded country where, again, the vast majority of its population are poor, illiterate and starving to death. The Indian immigrants we see here, the doctors, store owners, business owners, have climbed a HUGE mountain of competition to get here.

Meanwhile, our government CREATES more poor by paying really stupid high school sluts to download babies, lose the father and take up permanent residence in Democrat inner city plantations.

WOW, you found 4- 17 people, and their views on the income gap are what?

Why not mention Donald Trump's childhood "hardships" and how he can "connect" with those of the working class that support him, no matter what he does? Another way some people can avoid being poor is to not elect greedy, gluttonous, self dealing, self serving, con artists who were born with silver spoons in their mouths to "look out for" their interests.

CHARTS: See How Much Of GOP Tax Cuts Will Go To The Middle Class

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Average tax refunds are down 8.4% in the wake of Trump tax cuts


Another way to avoid poverty is to be a crook, especially a white collar one. Ask Bernie Madoff.....he was wealthier than Trump has ever claimed to be and got away with being a crook for how many years? It took what, to reel him in?

There are a lot of very wealthy people who pass a lot of their wealth along to people in need and don't mind paying more in taxes (because they have a lot of money and can still live in luxury AFTER paying more in taxes.

10% of a $25,000 annual income has a much larger relative affect on that earner than 10% of someone whose income is $2.5 million and most of those who make $2.5 million don't make that income, BUT for those making a hell of a lot less, who are working as hard or harder.

In the 1960's, the average CEO made only 20 times what the average low wage worker made........In this day and age the difference is much greater, even obscene in some instances.

Top CEOs Make More in Two Days Than An Average Employee Does in One Year

CEOs make $15.6 million on average—here’s how much their pay has increased compared to yours

Are most CEO's making their compensation/income packages by selling just a few outrageously expensive things to the wealthy 1% or are many of them selling goods and services to tens of millions of people, many who live close to poverty?



No one begrudges people who do well and make money. Its the attitude of some people who make a lot of money, especially when they don't seem to realize how their paychecks come to them and what they depend upon and to hear wealthy people whine about having to pay their employees a livable wage or pay more in taxes in an amount that would still leave them wealthy and living in the lap of luxury is just plain obscene, selfish, greedy, gluttonous, etc. Even more obscene, are the extents to which some will go to be and stay wealthy and those that pretend to be religious, even as they defy many of the basic tenets of the religions they claim to believe in.

I have seen people who live in poverty work twice or three times as hard as the CEO's their work contributes to when it comes to that CEO's compensation.

Most people know how to stay out of poverty and that working and earning is required. They ALSO know it is a lot easier said than done for a lot of people and that for many, LIFE HAPPENS, that makes it harder. They aren't fooled by the greedy fat cats who want someone to believe all the BS you're trying to pass off as some sort of lame excuse to NOT help out people less fortunate.

If you're so obsessed with the word "EARN", why aren't you asking what Donald Trump did to "earn" his privileged childhood, except to be born into it and why, compared to others who were also born into wealth or were born into poverty and now have wealth, DON'T act like Trump when it comes to being a greedy, gluttonous, lying, adulterous, narcissistic, bastard?

I know the guy who is #5 on this list, but has the highest generosity index of them all at 420,000% - The 20 most generous people in the world

How many of them do you see running around whining about how much they pay in taxes or lecturing poor people on how they need to NOT be poor?
 
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Feb 2019
270
71
Florida
#25

Oh, come on... Look at these bullet points, and you can see that at the very least, the data is obsolete. And it's not limited to luxuries.


Are you suggesting America's poor are as poor as those in Somalia? (Certainly after eight years of Obama, we were headed in that direction.)

There is no way that 70% of ANY household demographics have a VCR. The last VCR manufacturing company ceased operation in 2016.


So 70 percent of households have DVD or BluRay players.


Internet access is a necessity when getting a job, since most jobs are not posted in the classified section of the newspaper.


And there are HOMELESS people who go online. And to give you a little scale in this (and this will be a gut check) in a few of the elementary schools I work as a substitute teacher, there are kids who are in homeless families. I've seen them. Some of those families live in shelters. Some live in tents. And somehow their parents bring them to school every day. I've seen it. The teachers were the ones who pointed them out to me.

A "wide screen plasma or LCD TV" - when is the last time you saw any other kind of TV for sale?
And given the advent of cloud-based services, I'm sure that the DVR rate is now way below 40%.

Thank you for admitting that I'm right. We STILL have the world's RICHEST poor.

By the way, if you are offended that I have suggested that we have the world's RICHEST poor, feel free to cite ANY country on this planet where its poor have as high a standard of living as those in the United States. I'll read your source with an open mind.
 
Feb 2019
270
71
Florida
#26
WOW, you found four people and their views on the income gap?

Nope. (so much for left wing reading comprehension.) I cited four examples out of a source that had a lot more. It wasn't people's views on income gap. It was people who became billionaires from poverty. You need to learn to read.

Why not mention Donald Trump's childhood "hardships" and how he can "connect" with those of the working class that support him, no matter what he does?

Not sure that's relevant to this discussion. Unlike idiots like Obama, who grew up in rich families and never had to earn anything on their own, Fred Trump made his son work in the construction yards in Queens to learn the business. Trump is considered, for all practical purposes, the blue collar billionaire. He didn't make his money on K street like the Washington Swamp. He EARNED it, every step of the way. But he did not come from poverty.

Another way to avoid poverty is to be a crook. Ask Bernie Madoff.....he was wealthier than Trump has ever claimed to be and got away with being a crook for how many years?

Not sure that's relevant. Then again, Democrat donor and NAZI sympathizer George Soros likewise came up from poverty.

There are a lot of very wealthy people who pass a lot of their wealth along to people in need and don't mind paying more in taxes (because they have a lot of money and can still live in luxury AFTER paying more in taxes.

And yet you hate them and envy them.

10% of a $25,000 annual income has a much larger relative affect on that earner than 10% of someone whose income is $2.5 million and most of those who make $2.5 million don't make that income, BUT for those making a hell of a lot less, who are working as hard or harder.

Working as hard? Seriously?

In the 1960's, the average CEO made only 20 times what the average low wage worker made........In this day and age the difference is much greater, even obscene in some instances.

Why is that relevant? The CEO works harder than the average low wage worker. President Trump pisses off his inner staff because the guy only sleeps four hours a night. He keeps CEO hours with his work. He did the same with his businesses. Low wage hourly workers half his age wouldn't be able to handle the pace.

No one begrudges people who do well and make money.

You do.

Its the attitude of some people who make a lot of money, especially when they don't seem to realize how their paychecks come to them and what they depend upon and to hear wealthy people whine about having to pay their employees a livable wage or pay more in taxes in an amount that would still leave them wealthy and living in the lap of luxury is just plain obscene, selfish, greedy, gluttonous, etc.

Actually the selfish and gluttonous are the rich Democrat lobbyists on K street, who basically earn their money by screwing the common man. A business owner who invests his own capital, pays for the building, the management structure, the materials, the machinery basically pays for labor what the market will bear. A burger flipper skill is one millions of idiot high school dropouts can master, whereas it takes a lot more time, intelligence and hard work to become a doctor.

It's not about "hard work." You could spend eight hours in the hot sun making mud pies and they would be worth zero. Your labor would be worth zero.
Labor is worth ONLY what one is willing to pay for it. That's just Economics 101.

And just out of curiosity, WHY AREN'T YOU BITCHING AND MOANING ABOUT THE FACT THAT NAZI PELOSI ON A CONGRESSMAN'S SALARY SOMEHOW BECAME WORTH OVER A HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS? WHY AREN'T YOU BITCHING THAT OBAMA IS WORTH $135 MILLON AFTER EIGHT YEARS ON A PRESIDENT'S SALARY OF A QUARTER MIL? (And him being the worst and LAZIEST president in history) WHY AREN'T YOU BITCHING AND MOANING ABOUT FUNDS TAKEN FROM HAITIAN RELIEF FUNDS BEING USED TO FINANCE CHELSEA CLINTON'S WEDDING? YOU THINK ANY OF THESE PEOPLE WORKED AS HARD AS THE BURGER FLIPPERS YOU IDOLIZE?

I have seen people who live in poverty work twice or three times as hard as the CEO's their work contributes to when it comes to that CEO's compensation.

No you haven't.

Most people know how to stay out of poverty and that work is required. They aren't fooled by the greedy fat cats who want someone to believe all the BS you're trying to pass off as some sort of lame excuse to NOT help out people less fortunate.

So far, all I've given is facts, from reliable sources. And this thread is NOT about helping those who are fat lazy and stupid. We have a huge welfare state that takes 60 cents out of every federal dollar for those bozos, but that's a subject for a different thread.

Just remember:

 
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Feb 2015
15,789
7,828
sadness
#27
Here again, why are we comparing ourselves to third world shitholes instead of our peer OECD nations

Gee. You liberals got mad at Trump when he said "Shithole countries." Now you're emulating him?

Why must you always punch down?

It's called COMPARISON. It's called FACT. And facts don't care about your feelings. And I wasn't just allegedly punching down the alleged "shithole countries" of today. I was also allegedly punching down American living conditions of the 1920s.

You seem awfully bitter, every time you lose an argument and come up against an inconvenient fact. You're bitter and closed minded to the fact that Americans are living better, EVEN OUR WORST POOR, than at any other time in our history, and it has been the result TOTALLY of free market capitalism. You refuse to celebrate the wondrous times we live in.

How did you EVER get so screwed up?
@Reason10

the colors are killing me....it seems very juvenal to making your point, just saying


try using the quote system if you want to respond to others.
 

Ian Jeffrey

Council Hall
Mar 2013
71,530
39,475
Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
#28
Nope. I post facts and I back them up with reliable sources.
No, you do not. Your political ideology is not "fact."
Wrong. His question was totally irrelevant, unintelligent and totally emotional. Life is too short to pander to crybabies and snowflakes.
On the contrary, your response is totally emotional. You are calling people who disagree with you "crybabies and snowflakes." He asked a valid question. You made a comparison, and he asked you why that comparison rather than one that is more relevant. The reality is that your comparison was full of irrelevancy and you cannot defend it intelligently.
 
May 2007
18,442
14,783
Houston, Texas
#29
Here again, why are we comparing ourselves to third world shitholes instead of our peer OECD nations

Gee. You liberals got mad at Trump when he said "Shithole countries." Now you're emulating him?

Why must you always punch down?

It's called COMPARISON. It's called FACT. And facts don't care about your feelings. And I wasn't just allegedly punching down the alleged "shithole countries" of today. I was also allegedly punching down American living conditions of the 1920s.

You seem awfully bitter, every time you lose an argument and come up against an inconvenient fact. You're bitter and closed minded to the fact that Americans are living better, EVEN OUR WORST POOR, than at any other time in our history, and it has been the result TOTALLY of free market capitalism. You refuse to celebrate the wondrous times we live in.

How did you EVER get so screwed up?
By listening to you.
 
Jun 2013
17,026
14,523
Here
#30
WOW, you found four people and their views on the income gap?

Nope. (so much for left wing reading comprehension.) I cited four examples out of a source that had a lot more. It wasn't people's views on income gap. It was people who became billionaires from poverty. You need to learn to read.

Why not mention Donald Trump's childhood "hardships" and how he can "connect" with those of the working class that support him, no matter what he does?

Not sure that's relevant to this discussion. Unlike idiots like Obama, who grew up in rich families and never had to earn anything on their own, Fred Trump made his son work in the construction yards in Queens to learn the business. Trump is considered, for all practical purposes, the blue collar billionaire. He didn't make his money on K street like the Washington Swamp. He EARNED it, every step of the way. But he did not come from poverty.

Another way to avoid poverty is to be a crook. Ask Bernie Madoff.....he was wealthier than Trump has ever claimed to be and got away with being a crook for how many years?

Not sure that's relevant. Then again, Democrat donor and NAZI sympathizer George Soros likewise came up from poverty.

There are a lot of very wealthy people who pass a lot of their wealth along to people in need and don't mind paying more in taxes (because they have a lot of money and can still live in luxury AFTER paying more in taxes.

And yet you hate them and envy them.

10% of a $25,000 annual income has a much larger relative affect on that earner than 10% of someone whose income is $2.5 million and most of those who make $2.5 million don't make that income, BUT for those making a hell of a lot less, who are working as hard or harder.

Working as hard? Seriously?

In the 1960's, the average CEO made only 20 times what the average low wage worker made........In this day and age the difference is much greater, even obscene in some instances.

Why is that relevant? The CEO works harder than the average low wage worker. President Trump pisses off his inner staff because the guy only sleeps four hours a night. He keeps CEO hours with his work. He did the same with his businesses. Low wage hourly workers half his age wouldn't be able to handle the pace.

No one begrudges people who do well and make money.

You do.

Its the attitude of some people who make a lot of money, especially when they don't seem to realize how their paychecks come to them and what they depend upon and to hear wealthy people whine about having to pay their employees a livable wage or pay more in taxes in an amount that would still leave them wealthy and living in the lap of luxury is just plain obscene, selfish, greedy, gluttonous, etc.

Actually the selfish and gluttonous are the rich Democrat lobbyists on K street, who basically earn their money by screwing the common man. A business owner who invests his own capital, pays for the building, the management structure, the materials, the machinery basically pays for labor what the market will bear. A burger flipper skill is one millions of idiot high school dropouts can master, whereas it takes a lot more time, intelligence and hard work to become a doctor.

It's not about "hard work." You could spend eight hours in the hot sun making mud pies and they would be worth zero. Your labor would be worth zero.
Labor is worth ONLY what one is willing to pay for it. That's just Economics 101.

And just out of curiosity, WHY AREN'T YOU BITCHING AND MOANING ABOUT THE FACT THAT NAZI PELOSI ON A CONGRESSMAN'S SALARY SOMEHOW BECAME WORTH OVER A HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS? WHY AREN'T YOU BITCHING THAT OBAMA IS WORTH $135 MILLON AFTER EIGHT YEARS ON A PRESIDENT'S SALARY OF A QUARTER MIL? (And him being the worst and LAZIEST president in history) WHY AREN'T YOU BITCHING AND MOANING ABOUT FUNDS TAKEN FROM HAITIAN RELIEF FUNDS BEING USED TO FINANCE CHELSEA CLINTON'S WEDDING? YOU THINK ANY OF THESE PEOPLE WORKED AS HARD AS THE BURGER FLIPPERS YOU IDOLIZE?

I have seen people who live in poverty work twice or three times as hard as the CEO's their work contributes to when it comes to that CEO's compensation.

No you haven't.

Most people know how to stay out of poverty and that work is required. They aren't fooled by the greedy fat cats who want someone to believe all the BS you're trying to pass off as some sort of lame excuse to NOT help out people less fortunate.

So far, all I've given is facts, from reliable sources. And this thread is NOT about helping those who are fat lazy and stupid. We have a huge welfare state that takes 60 cents out of every federal dollar for those bozos, but that's a subject for a different thread.

Just remember:


Are you reading from a script or just an arrogant bastard who thinks they know it all, but makes themselves look like a fool to people with functioning brains? You seem to fail at all the things you claim others fail at by not being able to read and comprehend, much less address anything anyone else, but your own big mouth, is saying/thinking.

I have, as many of those you list, been an employee as well as an employer, thus your trying to lecture to anyone in the way you do, is just plain nonsense, silly and comes from a small mind and someone who appears to need to put down weak people to build themselves up......... <------- Unless you like these comments, you should perhaps think about what others feel when all you do is whine about their not being like the 1%, because they aren't millionaire or billionaires, insult them and stereotype them as "liberals", left wingers and Democrats while IGNORING all those "liberals" and "Democrats", "left wingers" who are also people who worked their way up from nothing (UNLIKE TRUMP, for all you claim about him) and have been quite the OPPOSITE of Trump when it comes to passing a lot of their wealth through to people not so fortunate, as themselves. You also don't know me from a hole in the head, yet you insulted me and stereotyped me, how many times in your dodgy answer?

What "facts" have you given?

"Time January January 2017: "All ex-presidents get pensions, to the tune of $205,700 annually, and the amount increases regularly to keep up with inflation. Obama, along with ex-presidents Carter, both Bushes, and Clinton, will also receive federal money to cover expenses such as office space and staff. In 2015, for example, George W. Bush was allocated $1.1 million, while Jimmy Carter received a total of $430,000— [...]According to publishers and literary agents consulted by the New York Times, a book contract would be worth somewhere between $12 and $30 million for Obama. (A Michele Obama memoir could be worth $10 to $15 million, meanwhile.)" White House/Forbes April 2014: According to the 2013 tax return President Obama earned a salary as President of $394,796 and he earned $104,809. His adjusted gross income on his tax return was $481,098. WSJ April 15 2013: President Barack Obama and first lady Michelle Obama paid $112,214 in federal income taxes for 2012 on adjusted gross income of $608,611, an effective rate of 18.4%, the White House said Huffington Post April 2013: President Obama is taken a 5% pay cut of his $400000 annual salary which amounts to $20,000. The Obama family, in tax returns released Friday 13, 2012 by the White House, reported an adjusted gross income of $789,674 for 2011, down from $1,728,096 in the previous year. The family income topped $5.5 million in 2009. The president earns a salary of $400,000 for his day job. His total earnings are much higher because of his books sales. Note: the VIP Salary Check is based on a 5 days working week and 2 weeks holiday per year. "
Salary, Income, Net Worth: Barack Obama - Paywizard.org



The Obamas are worth 30 times more than when they entered the White House in 2008 — here's how they spend their millions


Tax History Project -- Presidential Tax Returns

Are you a millionaire or billionaire? If not, what's wrong with you? Not smart enough? Not motivated enough? Can't EARN enough? Not a citizen of America? Just another Trump Troll on the Trump propaganda payroll?

One can see why there is a need for more troops to prop up the con artist in chief.



https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4778...e-house-oversight-government-reform-committee

I grew up in a Republican family (a Republican Party that hardly resembled today's) had many Republican friends and was a Republican myself.....so I have heard all your BS before and so have most of my family and friends who are no longer Republicans because of the BS you're trying to pass off as "conservative"........The only thing conservative about what you are trying to pass off is conservation of your own personal wealth (if you have any) on the backs of others. Some very wealthy people don't want to see do well, because it would mean less, for them. This is how oligarchs work........in this nation and other nations, like Russia for example.




It's nothing new to the world. The question is, will America fall deeper under the control of crony billionaires (who buys Trump Real estate and pays $200,000 for Mar-a-Lago membership? Blue collar workers?) or reject their control and aim for a nation that is about all Americans, not just the privileged few?





"In order to prove this assertion, I shall premise two propositions, which have never been controverted: First, where there is wealth, there will be power; and, secondly, the rich have always been an over-match for the poor in all contests for power."

"These truths being admitted, I desire to know what can prevent our single representation being filled, in the course of a few years, with a majority of rich men? Say not, the people will not choose such men to represent them. The influence of wealth at elections is irresistible. It has been seen and felt in Pennsylvania, and I am obliged in justice to my subject to say, that there are poor men among us as prepared to be influenced, as the rich are prepared to influence them. The fault must be laid in both cases upon human nature. The consequence of a majority of rich men getting into the legislature is plain. Their wealth will administer fuel to the love of arbitrary power that is common to all men. The present Assembly have furnished them with precedents for breaking the Constitution. Farewell now to annual elections! Public emergencies will sanctify the most daring measures. The clamours of their constituents will be silenced with offices, bribes or punishments. An aristocracy will be established, and Pennsylvania will be inhabited like most of the countries in Europe, with only two sorts of animals, tyrants and slaves."

-Benjamin Rush, Observations on the Government of Pennsylvania
1777
Selected Writings 57--64, 67--69

Bicameralism: Benjamin Rush, Observations on the Government of Pennsylvania



One might ask how many of the troll/shills here are those who are as Benjamin Rush pointed out.........." poor men among us as prepared to be influenced, as the rich are prepared to influence them."?
 
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