Trump distancing himself from Giuliani

Jun 2014
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Cleveland, Ohio
He will, Christmas 2020, win or lose. At that point he will not care about the consequences. I'd bet money on it. I think that's the only reason Guiliani isn't going to flip on Trump. He knows Trump will pardon him to keep him from talking but Guiliani isn't willing to spend any time in jail or go through any court case. He'll have to pardon Guiliani even before there is a trial.
I don't think it will work. Giuliani has state criminal liability, including tax evasion, and faces financial ruin as well as disbarment. He's not going to meekly accept his fate.

I'm shocked that Manafort and Flynn have done, thus far, tbh.
 
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Sep 2016
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My own world
I don't think it will work. Giuliani has state criminal liability, including tax evasion, and faces financial ruin as well as disbarment. He's not going to meekly accept his fate.

I'm shocked that Manafort and Flynn have done, thus far, tbh.
He'll have no choice. His only hope is a Pardon from Trump for federal charges and I'm sure he'll get Trump backers to pay his legal bills. In terms of state charges they may be able to charge him if they find money transfers under New York State law for money laundering. If Parnas and Fruman paid him with funds from Firtash Rudy's fucked.
 

Devil505

Former Staff
Jan 2008
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Florida
He'll have no choice. His only hope is a Pardon from Trump for federal charges and I'm sure he'll get Trump backers to pay his legal bills. In terms of state charges they may be able to charge him if they find money transfers under New York State law for money laundering. If Parnas and Fruman paid him with funds from Firtash Rudy's fucked.
A President's pardon authority needs some new rules.
Obviously a pardon that a jury is convinced was made for the purpose of hiding criminal activity should be illegal and amount to a crime in and of itself.
 

Devil505

Former Staff
Jan 2008
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31,506
Florida
You would need a constitutional amendment, and you are not going to get one.
I'm not so sure.
Smart constitutional lawyers can work legal miracles.

What wording in the COTUS would disallow common sense restrictions on pardons?

If a future SCOTUS allows any law Congress writes limiting a presiden's pardon power, there would be no need to amend the Cotus.
 
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Jun 2014
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Cleveland, Ohio
He'll have no choice. His only hope is a Pardon from Trump for federal charges and I'm sure he'll get Trump backers to pay his legal bills. In terms of state charges they may be able to charge him if they find money transfers under New York State law for money laundering. If Parnas and Fruman paid him with funds from Firtash Rudy's fucked.
Obviously, but it may not have dawned on Rudy yet. Say he rats out Trump and saves his own ass.

How long before he's dying from a dose of polonium 210?

There's only one way to exit an scheme to corrupt with Putin: death.

Amirite, @The Man?
 
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Jun 2014
64,781
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Cleveland, Ohio
I'm not so sure.
Smart constitutional lawyers can work legal miracles.

What wording in the COTUS would disallow common sense restrictions on pardons?
None, if you're asking whether Trump could pardon state crimes, etc. The more complex question is can Trump buy silence from witnesses against him by pardoning them, or would that be the crime of (attempted) obstruction of justice?

Not surprisingly, there's no significant body of SCOTUS decisions on the question.
 
Sep 2016
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Obviously, but it may not have dawned on Rudy yet. Say he rats out Trump and saves his own ass.

How long before he's dying from a dose of polonium 210?

There's only one way to exit an scheme to corrupt with Putin: death.

Amirite, @The Man?
I don't think Rudy has a evidence to link Putin to Trump. What Rudy does have is Trumps participation in getting Ukraine to stop helping Mueller regarding Manafort .
Giuliani met with the investigators in Ukraine that were investigating Manafort for all the crimes he committed in Ukraine.
The investigators in Ukraine were also co-operating with Mueller in connection with his crimes in the US.
The next day the investigation in Ukraine into Manafort is shelved and they stop co-operating with Mueller's team.
Then Ukraine gets to buy the tank piercing missiles from the U.S and the President back in 2017 gets a meeting in the WH to meet Trump.


 

Ian Jeffrey

Council Hall
Mar 2013
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Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
I'm not so sure.
Smart constitutional lawyers can work legal miracles.

What wording in the COTUS would disallow common sense restrictions on pardons?

If a future SCOTUS allows any law Congress writes limiting a presiden's pardon power, there would be no need to amend the Cotus.