Trump's leadership discussion

Chief

Former Staff
Nov 2009
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22,070
SoCal
Some of the best leaders I've known led by example. One thing about Trump is (they say) he never smokes, drinks or does drugs. For me that is one sign of a leader. It shows a dedication to be stronger and sharper then others and never allowing oneself to lose control. We have all seen the embarrassing photos of our most prominent politicians, looking sloshed with a drink in hand (or a joint in hand). I've seen no such photos of Trump. Just one facet of leadership. Just imagine Trump after a pint of rum...scary thought but it would be hilarious.
I'll give Trump that he doesn't use alcohol or drugs (or at least does not seem to). But I can't agree that he leads by example, because for that to be true, the follower has to cherry pick through plenty of bad things.
 

Devil505

Former Staff
Jan 2008
72,653
30,653
Florida
Some of the best leaders I've known led by example. One thing about Trump is (they say) he never smokes, drinks or does drugs. For me that is one sign of a leader. It shows a dedication to be stronger and sharper then others and never allowing oneself to lose control. We have all seen the embarrassing photos of our most prominent politicians, looking sloshed with a drink in hand (or a joint in hand). I've seen no such photos of Trump. Just one facet of leadership. Just imagine Trump after a pint of rum...scary thought but it would be hilarious.
That's just the face of a man..... way overconfident in his abiliies than reality warrants. (lucky him.....he'll never know how ill-equipped he was posing as POTUS))
 
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Davocrat

Former Staff
Apr 2007
53,365
41,913
Deep State
I see occasionally folks bring up Trump as a leader. I usually bitch about it right there. But I think since Trump is the president of the US, his "leadership" is of concern. My initial question... (sorry for copying myself from another thread), "How can Trump lead when he's so hated?"

There's plenty more to discuss on his leadership, but that's what I am wondering at the moment.
I don't even think he's a good manager.

He tries to lead by command-and-control, but while he does it, he plays his people against each other, maintains constant chaos and lacks ANY sense of strategy. He's pure tactics.
 

Chief

Former Staff
Nov 2009
33,559
22,070
SoCal
I believe that Trump has attempted to gain the support of our military and their families.. forgive wounded warriors college debt, end ridiculous rules of engagement, vastly improved the horribly mismanaged VA and, in general, Trump seems to be reluctant to send our soldiers to war. To me, this is a sign of leadership. It might be all BS but he does seem to try and give respect to our troops. He has not had a marine hold an umbrella over his head in the rain (as did Obama)..... This effort, I believe, is another sign of a competent leader.
You are bringing up some things that can be looked at as positives, but are not leadership I think. Let me break it down a bit.

College debt - 100% disabled vets, so that's not many, can get their college debt written off. As far as I know, this was already true. I think Trump just renewed it. I do appreciate the work he does for vets, certainly it's personal to me, but I think his supporters are trying to make this into more than it is.

Rules of engagement - I am unaware of Trump's work here. So if you can point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it.

VA mismanagement - I can't give Trump credit for this. It was terrible, so he stuck an unqualified loyalist in there, and had to fire him, then the next guy couldn't get confirmed, and now we have Wilkie, and the VA made the news again with 10 deaths and at least one homicide. I'm not giving him credit, but also I'm not blaming Trump. It was terrible before and is going to be hard to fix. If Trump is serious about it though, he can't be worried about giving it to someone based on personal loyalty.

Trump reluctant to go to war - I am not sure if this is because of the expense or that he is something of a pacifist. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and call this a plus on his leadership, with one caveat... Trump threw away General Mattis, who might have been the very best resource in the country to steer this country away from war if that was his goal.

The umbrella thing - I'd consider that fluff in a resume of leadership.

And with all of this... if Trump is a leader of any stripe, why is so much of the country and world recoiling from him? I think a competent leader is not going to be so divisive. And that's not something you can drop on the Dems. Trump is the president, its his job to win over over the country with his leadership, it's not the countries job to set their concerns aside and just follow him. Obama had trouble with this metric also. (Not worldwide, but nationwide)
 

Chief

Former Staff
Nov 2009
33,559
22,070
SoCal
And just consider the ALTERNATIVE we could have had. Trump may not SPEAK a good example ,but his ACTIONS have helped this country grow.
I don't really want to get into Trump vs Clinton. To me, that's a separate topic that's unrelated to leadership.

He's had 3 years leading the country. He has done a lot and earned accolades from his followers and scorn from his adversaries, so I think both sides of the aisle can find ammunition for this topic.
 

Chief

Former Staff
Nov 2009
33,559
22,070
SoCal
I don't even think he's a good manager.

He tries to lead by command-and-control, but while he does it, he plays his people against each other, maintains constant chaos and lacks ANY sense of strategy. He's pure tactics.
Yes, I think so too. No mentoring his juniors, chaos and infighting, on top of his 90% reaction and little to no vision.
 
Jan 2007
38,447
8,918
I believe that Trump has attempted to gain the support of our military and their families.. forgive wounded warriors college debt, end ridiculous rules of engagement, vastly improved the horribly mismanaged VA and, in general, Trump seems to be reluctant to send our soldiers to war. To me, this is a sign of leadership. It might be all BS but he does seem to try and give respect to our troops. He has not had a marine hold an umbrella over his head in the rain (as did Obama)..... This effort, I believe, is another sign of a competent leader.
Want a leader with good policy. Policy that benefits the United States. WE have to live with policy. A charismatic leader the world adores, with bad ideas is a disaster.
 

Rasselas

Moderator
Feb 2010
71,817
49,072
USA
One of the best leaders I ever worked under was, I think, a narcissist.

He thought quite a lot of himself, but he also thought highly of those who worked hard and fell under his command. I think he generalized his positive feelings about himself to those who were under him. That said, he was tough on those who were lazy or weren't willing to do hard work (those folks hated him).

I think Trump is the same.
yes , to a fault, he thinks he is pretty great. But he generalizes this to patriotic America too.
Except that he's lazy himself and he fires people who challenge him in any way. He demands loyalty but does not offer it. One can't be a good leader by airing dirty laundry in pubic and making underlings take the fall. He's also horrible at communicating about any sort of coherent policy. If it can't be said in the style of a WWF wrestler, it's beyond Trump.