Turkey launches Syrian air strikes

Aug 2018
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But that's what this is actually about - sending our kids to go die in Syria.

What ever you and others may think of Turkey is really beside that point. So if you aren't willing to send your kids to go die in Syria (don't worry because I'm not either) why should we expect others to do it? It's time to bring them home.

This isn't our fight and we've already helped the Kurds plenty (and will continue to help them). We don't have to keep dying for them too.
Yeah that's what I said.

This isn't anyone's fight, really.... But western democracies shouldn't be doing business with tyrants.

There's a huge difference between "this isn't my fight so I'll stay out of it" and "this sent my fight so I'll be military and security allies with the one who clearly started it".

Hard to argue thought, when we do so much business with so many tyrants already.
 
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@Jeremy

Just to illustrate a bit about how I feel about Turkey...

On October 6th, in Russian city of Samara, there was a fight as part of some local Russian MMA tournament; and they were stupid enough to pair up an Armenian fighter against a guy from Turkey

I don't know whose bright idea that was. Everyone in Russia certainly knows about the whole history between the two peoples. Really dumb organizers.

Long story short, the Armenian choked the Turk nearly to death, just wouldn't let him go, the ref couldn't drag him off, had to call other guys into the ring to help him

Turkish guy ended up in hospital, in a coma actually, I believe...

That's how Armenians feel towards Turks, my friend. Me too. If i ever fought one, I would kill him or die myself. No other way. They are enemy to me, their kind, to my kind. That's just the way it is. I don't care about NATO, whatever. I would never support Turkey, on anything.

This is why, I think, it is best you and I just agree to disagree on this question, and I will probably just get out of this whole thread. My emotional feelings on this are just too damn strong...

That's fine. In all honestly I don't have an issue with you hating Turkey. I understand this is personal for you. But Turkey itself really has very little with my position on this.

My concern is for our young men and women being killed and maimed in Syria. There just isn't a good reason for that to continue. If another country wants to go into Syria and get killed and maimed acting as a deterrent in the Middle East then that's their business. But I'm tired of our politicians using our military as pawns to advance their foreign meddling.
 
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Yeah that's what I said.

This isn't anyone's fight, really.... But western democracies shouldn't be doing business with tyrants.

There's a huge difference between "this isn't my fight so I'll stay out of it" and "this sent my fight so I'll be military and security allies with the one who clearly started it".

Hard to argue thought, when we do so much business with so many tyrants already.
I guess what I'm saying is I believe this is Syria's fight. If Syrians want to kill each other then that's their business. But I don't see a good reason why Americans need to get caught in the middle while they do it.

I agree with you in principle that America shouldn't do business with tyrants. Unfortunately principle often yields to advantage and greed. I would favor creating a new international community comprised of nothing but democracies that only do businesses with one another and sanction everyone else. But that's really the only way something like that could work. It would have to be all or nothing - otherwise democratic countries will always end up dealing with tyrants on the side for economic advantage due to the competitive nature of our world economy.
 
Dec 2018
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the Heart of America
Nah, what's cute is how you conveniently neglect to point out what supposed "mistake" I made. Especially since I just supplied you with an article educating you on the subject. Try reading it.
I was hoping you could find your own mistake, but since you asked for help:
George Herbert Walker (GHW) Bush was the 41st President of the United States, the President after Reagan. NAFTA was Reagan's idea, but GHW Bush actually helped negotiate it. There were problems with it and it wasn't ratified until the Clinton administration.

George Walker (GW, and often referred to by those initials) Bush was the 43rd President of the United States and had nothing to do with NAFTA.

Some light reading for you: North American Free Trade Agreement - Wikipedia


Oh when it comes to trade, certainly he's better than both of those you mention...

GW Bush was actually one of the architects of NAFTA - one of the biggest economic disasters this country has ever had.

So I think you should take your own advice and get some historical knowledge before you go around lying about people and pretending to be smarter than them on the internet.
 
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I was hoping you could find your own mistake, but since you asked for help:
George Herbert Walker (GHW) Bush was the 41st President of the United States, the President after Reagan. NAFTA was Reagan's idea, but GHW Bush actually helped negotiate it. There were problems with it and it wasn't ratified until the Clinton administration.

George Walker (GW, and often referred to by those initials) Bush was the 43rd President of the United States and had nothing to do with NAFTA.

Some light reading for you: North American Free Trade Agreement - Wikipedia
That's right.. I said GHW Bush... the President after Reagan (who was the one you were referring to)... was one of the architects of NAFTA. A fact you just confirmed by admitting he helped negotiate it...

So thanks for proving my point I guess?

You said Reagan and Bush were better Presidents when it came to trade than Trump - which was bullshit because both of those men helped to usher in one of the worse economic trade disasters this country has ever known. So before you laughably pretend to have historical context about a subject you should probably take the time to actually research it first so you can better propel this imaginary" knowledge" you claim to have when you try to tell other posters they are wrong when in fact they were right all along.
 
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Dec 2018
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the Heart of America
That's right.. I said GHW Bush... the President after Reagan (who was the one you were referring to)... was one of the architects of NAFTA. A fact you just confirmed by admitting he helped negotiate it...

So thanks for proving my point I guess?
Suuuuuure you did. This isn't high school anymore, Jeremy. You should man up. All you have on an anonymous forum is your reputation and reputations are earned. We all make mistakes. If you make a mistake, my humble advice is to own it, apologize, correct the error and move on, not prolong it like a 13 year old trying to lie his way out of being caught with his hand in his own pants.

Oh when it comes to trade, certainly he's better than both of those you mention...

GW Bush was actually one of the architects of NAFTA - one of the biggest economic disasters this country has ever had.

So I think you should take your own advice and get some historical knowledge before you go around lying about people and pretending to be smarter than them on the internet.
Now, back on topic: If the Kurds are massacred, the blame will partly fall into Trump's lap even though he'll lie about it....wait for it.....like a 13 year old trying to lie his way out of being caught with his hand in his own pants.
 
Nov 2014
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Suuuuuure you did. This isn't high school anymore, Jeremy. You should man up. All you have on an anonymous forum is your reputation and reputations are earned. We all make mistakes. If you make a mistake, my humble advice is to own it, apologize, correct the error and move on, not prolong it like a 13 year old trying to lie his way out of being caught with his hand in his own pants.
You're the one who needs to man up...

It was you who brought up Reagan and Bush - so of course I was talking about the same Bush you brought up as I was commenting about what you posted.

The only one trying to twist their way out of being proved wrong here is you. And it's pathetic. Go find someone else to troll please because you're just a waste of my time. The fucking link I sent you was talking about Reagan and the first Bush - so obviously that's who I was referring to. Talk about debating with a 13 year old with his pants down... you're just amazing at describing yourself now aren't you.

The bottom line (in case you forgot what this was actually about) is that Bush and Reagan were not superior presidents when it came to trade (as you falsely claimed). Those two men helped bring about one of the greatest trade disasters in this country's history.

You were wrong. Get over it.
 
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Aug 2018
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I guess what I'm saying is I believe this is Syria's fight. If Syrians want to kill each other then that's their business. But I don't see a good reason why Americans need to get caught in the middle while they do it.

I agree with you in principle that America shouldn't do business with tyrants. Unfortunately principle often yields to advantage and greed. I would favor creating a new international community comprised of nothing but democracies that only do businesses with one another and sanction everyone else. But that's really the only way something like that could work. It would have to be all or nothing - otherwise democratic countries will always end up dealing with tyrants on the side for economic advantage due to the competitive nature of our world economy.
That's the way I believe it should work.

In the post war period, when the UN was formed, that was not an option.

It would be now. All it would require is leadership.