UK/Brexit: Boris Johnson May be On His Way Out

Apr 2012
60,212
45,345
Englewood,Ohio
????

People with brains vote differently every time. That's why different parties win and lose in different elections.

It's only a very "special" few that blindly bleat out cheerleading calls for one side.
I gave you a like but have to admit I have never voted for anyone but a Democrat.

I did volunteer for a Republican County Chairman once. But went twice, listened to 2 jewelry laden bleached blondes giving Congressman Tony Hall hell. He had just lost his 15 year old Son to Leukemia. I said I felt sorry for him. One said I should not feel sorry for Tony. I let her know I would always feel sorry for anyone who lost a child!

Oh, yes, I found the Chairman lied to me about school funding too! End of my Republican venture.
 
Oct 2009
33,036
27,390
Kansas
Outside observers can only conclude that the UK should return to a government by monarchy.
Funny you say this, at the moment Parliament is prorogued by order of the Queen. Lawmakers can't go back into session, even if they want to (and it is clear that a majority want to). Now, the Queen did this on direct advice from PM Johnson, which by convention, she can't contravene. However, it can be argued that with the Scottish court having ruled unanimously that Johnson essentially deceived the Queen for political purposes, she would be justified in lifting the prorogation now. If she fails to do so, that will constitute the largest direct monarchical intervention in Parliament's affairs in centuries.

So, Elizabeth has a choice to make: Comply with the obvious will of Parliament or hide behind her PM's advice. If she sticks with the latter, then she is undermining British democracy and a step has been taken toward enhancing the power of the executive (therefore the monarchy) in a way no U.S. president ever could. Presidents can ask Congress to come into session in an emergency, but they can't force it into recess. Only monarchies and dictatorships award the executive this kind of power, it just hasn't been used in the UK for many years. Elizabeth failing to do the right thing here could very well harm the credibility of the Crown.
 
Likes: the bull59
May 2016
3,840
965
california
Funny you say this, at the moment Parliament is prorogued by order of the Queen. Lawmakers can't go back into session, even if they want to (and it is clear that a majority want to). Now, the Queen did this on direct advice from PM Johnson, which by convention, she can't contravene. However, it can be argued that with the Scottish court having ruled unanimously that Johnson essentially deceived the Queen for political purposes, she would be justified in lifting the prorogation now. If she fails to do so, that will constitute the largest direct monarchical intervention in Parliament's affairs in centuries.

So, Elizabeth has a choice to make: Comply with the obvious will of Parliament or hide behind her PM's advice. If she sticks with the latter, then she is undermining British democracy and a step has been taken toward enhancing the power of the executive (therefore the monarchy) in a way no U.S. president ever could. Presidents can ask Congress to come into session in an emergency, but they can't force it into recess. Only monarchies and award the executive this kind of power, it just hasn't been used in the UK for many years. Elizabeth failing to do the right thing here could very well harm the credibility of the crown.
I heard they were going into a recess and Boris only increased the time by a few days but if they want go to civil war over it then the queen should take over.imo
 
Apr 2012
60,212
45,345
Englewood,Ohio
LOL! True - there is an enduring myth that The Times once published the headline: “Dense fog in the Channel; Continent isolated for three days” :D
Leo, I left a Southern Baptist Church right before I was sent a Sermon on the Prayer chain comparing Trump to Winston Churchill because Winston drank and did bad things and Trump did bad things but he could save the Country the way Churchill saved England.

I blistered that woman in an email for sending me a lie like that. Politics on a Prayer Chain. That is how far Evangelicals have sunk and wonder why they are losing members. Half that Church left.
 
Oct 2009
33,036
27,390
Kansas
I heard they were going into a recess and Boris only increased the time by a few days but if they want go to civil war over it then the queen should take over.imo
The difference is one of principle and law. When Parliament goes into recess, that's because a majority of its members vote to do so. Prorogation means the Queen is ordering them to go home, whether they want to or not. This power has always been reserved for emergencies and has only ever been used on the advice of the PM.

The current prorogation is the longest since 1945, in other words, since World War II. The PM has always refrained from issuing advice to the Queen that would cause her to make a controversial decision that doesn't have Parliament's general consent. The UK is in uncharted territory if the Queen doesn't stop listening to Johnson.

Her role really is to uphold the normal order of things, if the PM is violating the normal order as he is then she is empowered to actually fire him. That would be a good step.
 
Likes: the bull59
Nov 2007
1,998
1,190
Prague, Czech Republic
The difference is one of principle and law. When Parliament goes into recess, that's because a majority of its members vote to do so. Prorogation means the Queen is ordering them to go home, whether they want to or not. This power has always been reserved for emergencies and has only ever been used on the advice of the PM.
It's not only used in emergencies - it's quite normal for a new incoming cabinet to prorogue Parliament in order to get it's policy platform in order.

However, in recent decades this has typically taken a few days, rather than weeks like Johnson is doing. This is not the first time in recent memory that a government has abused the power to avoid Parliamentary scrutiny - John Major did it too, but Johnson has him beat by a couple of weeks.
 
Aug 2018
3,197
5,151
Vancouver
I gave you a like but have to admit I have never voted for anyone but a Democrat.

I did volunteer for a Republican County Chairman once. But went twice, listened to 2 jewelry laden bleached blondes giving Congressman Tony Hall hell. He had just lost his 15 year old Son to Leukemia. I said I felt sorry for him. One said I should not feel sorry for Tony. I let her know I would always feel sorry for anyone who lost a child!

Oh, yes, I found the Chairman lied to me about school funding too! End of my Republican venture.
Two party system. The one scenario no honest person can ever hope to win in.
 
Likes: the bull59
Oct 2009
33,036
27,390
Kansas
It's not only used in emergencies - it's quite normal for a new incoming cabinet to prorogue Parliament in order to get it's policy platform in order. However, in recent decades this has typically taken a few days, rather than weeks like Johnson is doing.

This is not the first time in recent memory that a government has abused the power to avoid Parliamentary scrutiny - John Major did it too, but Johnson has him beat by a couple of weeks.
An extended prorogation of this kind hasn't occurred since World War II, that's the point. And nobody is buying the stated reasons why.
 
Likes: the bull59