Umpires to boycott Serena Williams matches

The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
40,714
26,971
Toronto
#42
ITT: men telling women what isn’t sexist
Sure. Husband paying a fine less than a traffic ticket for beating wife (Russia these days) is sexist. Woman being jailed and whipped for demanding freedom to drive own car (Saudi Arabia) is sexist. Young teen girls forcibly married to men in their sixties (FLDS cults in America and a "community" here in Canada, BC, too), that's sexist.

Being disciplined for a rule violation in a fucking game is not.

Enough with the bs...
 
Likes: bajisima
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#44
Sure. Husband paying a fine less than a traffic ticket for beating wife (Russia these days) is sexist. Woman being jailed and whipped for demanding freedom to drive own car (Saudi Arabia) is sexist. Young teen girls forcibly married to men in their sixties (FLDS cults in America and a "community" here in Canada, BC, too), that's sexist.

Being disciplined for a rule violation in a fucking game is not.

Enough with the bs...
I can accept that being disciplined for a rule violation in a game could be sexist (albeit trivially so relative to the rest of your list). But, to get there, it would take more than merely asserting it was sexist. It would take an actual argument, rooted in evidence. As I've said before, I can think of all manner of evidence that would get me there -- for example, if people were to dig up evidence of this guy making a habit of engaging in sexist rhetoric, or if people dug up evidence that he penalizes female players more than male ones to a statistically significant degree, or even just evidence that he tends to pull the trigger faster with women than men for a particular kind of rule violation. The term "sexist" is one I take very seriously, so I want to see support for it when it's applied to an individual that way. I don't like the idea of arguably the most powerful person in the tennis world tossing such a serious accusation at a vastly less powerful person and then countless people piling onto him in solidarity with her, without anyone even bothering to substantiate the accusation. My instincts are to defend the little guy, and in this case, he's the little guy.... a guy with vastly less money, power, and public platform than his accuser. If he truly did behave in a sexist way, then let that be demonstrated and let him face the stigma of his actions and appropriate professional penalties. But I hate the idea of a Kafkaesque situation where a serious charge is made against him and there is literally no earthly way for him to clear his name, because there isn't even evidence he can confront. There's just the naked assertion.
 

The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
40,714
26,971
Toronto
#45
I can accept that being disciplined for a rule violation in a game could be sexist (albeit trivially so relative to the rest of your list). But, to get there, it would take more than merely asserting it was sexist. It would take an actual argument, rooted in evidence. As I've said before, I can think of all manner of evidence that would get me there -- for example, if people were to dig up evidence of this guy making a habit of engaging in sexist rhetoric, or if people dug up evidence that he penalizes female players more than male ones to a statistically significant degree, or even just evidence that he tends to pull the trigger faster with women than men for a particular kind of rule violation. The term "sexist" is one I take very seriously, so I want to see support for it when it's applied to an individual that way. I don't like the idea of arguably the most powerful person in the tennis world tossing such a serious accusation at a vastly less powerful person and then countless people piling onto him in solidarity with her, without anyone even bothering to substantiate the accusation. My instincts are to defend the little guy, and in this case, he's the little guy.... a guy with vastly less money, power, and public platform than his accuser. If he truly did behave in a sexist way, then let that be demonstrated and let him face the stigma of his actions and appropriate professional penalties. But I hate the idea of a Kafkaesque situation where a serious charge is made against him and there is literally no earthly way for him to clear his name, because there isn't even evidence he can confront. There's just the naked assertion.
It's such bull crap.

Trying to limit discussion of such an important subject by gender is ridiculous.

That's like me saying that, as someone of Armenian blood, only I get to talk about Armenian Genocide here on PH; or, that the female members should shut up about any issue specifically related to men...

No. This is a discussion platform for EVERYONE.
 
Likes: Arkady
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#47
ITT: men telling women what isn’t sexist
Here's a suggestion for a kind of "quality control" people can do on their own opinions, to see if they're being even-handed: picture a gender-swapped version of the same story.

Picture if it were a Rafael Nadal game and the umpire was a woman. Imagine she issued him a warning after she caught his coach cheating, and then she issued a second code violation when he busted up his racket in a temper tantrum. Now picture if he responded by trying to intimidate her -- yelling at her, accusing her of attacking his character, ordering her to make an announcement that he hadn't cheated, insisting over and over that she needed to apologize, threatening her that she'd never be able to officiate any of his matches again, and calling her a liar. Imagine that she absorbed that abuse with quiet dignity and restraint for a couple minutes, without penalizing him, but then, when he kept going and called her a thief, she called him on the rules violation of abusing an official. Now picture if Nadal went to the press and insisted that she only penalized him because she has a problem with men.

I believe pretty much nobody would be on Nadal's side if that played out. Even those who might be predisposed to argue she was too quick with the penalties would be horrified when he tried to make it about gender that way. In fact, I think if that scenario played out, Nadal would be publicly called out for sexism for having berated a female umpire and for having impugned her integrity that way.

Do you disagree?
 
Likes: The Man
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#48
I'm with those who saw that depiction as racist. It looks nothing like Williams, but looks quite a bit like racist caricatures of black people from yesteryear. I'm kind of shocked it made it through the editorial process, since even as someone who thought Williams's behavior was appalling, my instant reaction to the cartoon was to think "yikes, that's racist!" I suppose I could imagine a cartoonist who is so naive about these things that he stumbles into such shop-worn racist imagery without realizing he was doing it, but how the hell does it make it through all the people who'd need to see it before publication without someone saying "whooaaah, there, have you seen this?!"
 
Likes: The Man

Jets

Former Staff
Feb 2011
22,014
11,590
New York
#49
This is just an observation, but we have a tennis player who got penalized for legitimate rule violations followed by polemics against the judge.

Not seeing the problem here...
 
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boontito

Future Staff
Jan 2008
99,111
85,473
West Coast 4 Life
#50
I don't think it's the severity of what she said, but rather the persistence. If you watch the actual video of her tirade, you'll see just how long he sits patiently absorbing her abuse without doing anything.

See here:


At 2:11 she loses it and busts her racket. At 2:38 she starts complaining to the ump, saying that it's "unbelievable" that he would give her a point penalty for that. At 2:49 she starts yelling. At around 2:55 she commands him to make an announcement that she didn't get coaching. At 3:04 she insists he owes her an apology. At 3:07 she starts screaming. At 3:18 she steps away. At that point, she'd been complaining for the better part of a minute, including demanding an apology and yelling at him, but there was no penalty for the abuse. He took it all patiently. That makes sense -- he knew she was upset the point penalty for busting up her racket, he let her vent without penalty, and presumably expected that she was a professional and would get herself under control after that and move on.

But then, at 3:48, she's back at it, yelling at him, with no further provocation. She accuses him of attacking her character (for having penalized her for her coach's admitted cheating), and again she demanded an apology. At 4 minutes she threatened him, with the insistence than he'd never be allowed to officiate another one of her matches. AT 4:08 she calls him a liar. Still no penalty. At 4:20, she's still yelling at him, demanding that he apologize to her. When he quietly refused, she ordered him not to talk to her. Still no penalty. In fact, he just quietly complied with her demand that she not talk to him, just looking ahead calmly. At 4:39 she's still going, demanding that this man (who she has just commanded not to talk to her) tell her how he dares to insinuate that she was cheating. Still no penalty. Still, he sat there calmly, absorbing the abuse, without even daring to talk back to her to defend himself. At 5:02, she finally cross the line, saying that he was a thief. Only then did he give her the code violation.

By that point, she'd basically been ranting at him during three different episodes, the last of which lasted for well over a minute. She got away with all that without penalty. Then she escalated it by calling him a thief. I think if she'd opened with that, way back at 2:49, and then stepped away and calmed down and acted like a professional, she'd never have had a penalty for it. But coming back at him over and over the way she did, after he gave her every chance to get her wits about her, probably told him that he needed to take an active step to regain some state of professionalism in the match... she wasn't going to get herself under control.
Yeah, seen the actual video a number of times. If you'd watch it, you'd see that she is in the wrong on the coaching argument. The rule is no coaching. Does everyone do it? Yes. Without a doubt. That doesn't excuse it. That's not a big deal. A lot of time it results in a warning. A lot of times it doesn't. Then she breaks the racket. That's on her too. She received a point penalty and that's all good.

She then questions his actions and calls him a thief and the response is the game penalty. That's ridiculous. Without any other conversation? That's B.S. Male players say WAY worse and are usually not penalized. In my opinion, that's where the official stepped over the line. He had a chance to diffuse the situation and didn't. That's a failure on his part.

All that said, none of it had any impact on the match. Osaka owned her that day.
 

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