US no longer fit to lead the world

Jan 2016
47,957
43,911
Colorado
China has already passed the US in new car sales. They'll catch up to our total economy in the next decade or so. Their middle class is growing in affluence. They have more people in there middle class than we have people period. On the flip side they've not pissed away $3 trillion dollars on useless and never ending wars in the middle east. China is a world power and they are elevating much of Asia as they grow. Anyone that thinks they aren't going to be major players on the world stage is just delusional. Russia has several times our land mass. They have enormous resources but only half our population. I have long thought we missed a prime opportunity when the old Soviet Union collapsed. We should have treated Russia the way we did Germany and Japan after WW2. We should have lead their conversion to a capitalist system. They had only cataloged maybe 10% of their natural resources and didn't have the financing or technology to make use of them. We could have made their economy dependent on ours making them allies as we went.
Josef Stalin showed precisely ZERO interest in converting to a capitalist system after World War II. And why should he have? His 'forced industrialization' of the Soviet economy in the 1930s had WORKED to transform the economy of the Soviet Union from a backward agrarian economy to a fully industrialized economy, one that allowed them to defeat Nazi Germany-----and the 1930's were a decade when the Western World had been mired in the deepest economic downturn since the Middle Ages.

Josef Stalin thought HIS system was vastly superior to the Western system of capitalism, and from HIS perspective, he probably had every reason for believing so.
 
Jan 2016
47,957
43,911
Colorado
With ANWAR open ,their OIL is no longer necessary. Best to leave 'em to their own devices. Leave all of the "Istans" alone.Their own evil will catch up with 'em.
There's a piffling amount of oil in ANWAR. Enough to supply America's oil needs for maybe six months. For that, we're going to take the very real risk of destroying an absolutely unique ecosystem.
 
Feb 2010
16,177
6,802
Where'm I At, Doe?
There's something to be said for the benefits of having a strong empire in the world. The Pax Romana, from 31 BC to ~230 AD, was an era of peasant prosperity stretching across Europe the likes of which had never been seen before. The brief Pax Mongolica had similar benefits. The Pax Britannica from 1815 to 1914 was a century of peace and prosperity unlike anything the world had seen before that.

Pax Americana - Wikipedia
This was the same Pax Britannica Dickens wrote so eloquently about, I think, yes?

I've already said I think history will see the American empire as inferior to the British empire in a lot of ways.
 
Mar 2012
53,677
35,545
New Hampshire
This was the same Pax Britannica Dickens wrote so eloquently about, I think, yes?

I've already said I think history will see the American empire as inferior to the British empire in a lot of ways.
I think that might be because the British wanted to conquer the people as well and make them their own. So they would conquer and then basically move in. The US by contrast, wants the resources. We dont want to conquer we just want to deplete and take whats theirs. That makes a big difference.
 
Likes: highway234
Josef Stalin showed precisely ZERO interest in converting to a capitalist system after World War II. And why should he have? His 'forced industrialization' of the Soviet economy in the 1930s had WORKED to transform the economy of the Soviet Union from a backward agrarian economy to a fully industrialized economy, one that allowed them to defeat Nazi Germany-----and the 1930's were a decade when the Western World had been mired in the deepest economic downturn since the Middle Ages.

Josef Stalin thought HIS system was vastly superior to the Western system of capitalism, and from HIS perspective, he probably had every reason for believing so.
I was referring to when the old Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. That is when we should have seriously stepped in with aid and expertise. Gotten them to open up, let businesses come in bringing capital and technology to access their enormous natural resources. We gave them a little bit, but most of their industry was sold off at bargain basement prices, given away to friends of friends or simply stolen. We missed a huge opportunity to fundamentally change and grow their economy. It took so long for them to transform it on their own, there are still people that want a return to the old system. Which is what gives us Putin now. I think we could have had a much less hostile Russia had we acted.
 
Feb 2010
16,177
6,802
Where'm I At, Doe?
I think that might be because the British wanted to conquer the people as well and make them their own. So they would conquer and then basically move in. The US by contrast, wants the resources. We dont want to conquer we just want to deplete and take whats theirs. That makes a big difference.
Yeah, I'd say that's true. I'm not sure which is creepier, I'd have to sleep on it. But offhand I'd say ours is. The British at least pretended to be on some quest to civilize the world. We're just devouring it, like a shark.
 
Likes: bajisima
Mar 2012
53,677
35,545
New Hampshire
I was referring to when the old Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. That is when we should have seriously stepped in with aid and expertise. Gotten them to open up, let businesses come in bringing capital and technology to access their enormous natural resources. We gave them a little bit, but most of their industry was sold off at bargain basement prices, given away to friends of friends or simply stolen. We missed a huge opportunity to fundamentally change and grow their economy. It took so long for them to transform it on their own, there are still people that want a return to the old system. Which is what gives us Putin now. I think we could have had a much less hostile Russia had we acted.
We did try a bit. I remember a lot of American CEOs went there to look into it. Anheuser Busch even considered opening up the worlds largest brewery there. Boeing as well. But we all were big into China at that time so I think they looked boring compared to the Chinese. Its a shame too because I dont think Putin would have gained ground there. They might have really gotten into capitalism.
 

Similar Discussions