Was it right to drop two atomic bombs on Japan?

Jul 2013
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their fantasy was to completely depopulate Japan. You see it all over the place in the media and writing of the time. Just like Trump, and before him Hillary Clinton, talk about the complete destruction of Iran if they ever act up. I remember after 9/11, all these people talking about nuking the entire middle east and turning it into glass. For some reason that was the image I always ran into, how they were going to nuke the middle east until it was glass (presumably because of all the sand) but in the same breath they would talk about how they wanted to "liberate" the people of iraq.

You only hear that sort of eliminationist rhetoric when the warmongers are focused on communities/societies of color. when they're talking about white communities/societies, they do a 180 and the eliminationist/genocidal impulse is the thing they're fighting. it's an impressive feat of cognitive dissonance, the sort of explicitly irrational discourse only racism can support.
When did Hillary discuss her wanting to depopulate Japan or nuke Iraq? I really would like to see the documentation.
 
Jul 2013
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Devil, I couldn't agree with you more, it makes it impossible to reasonably disagree when the Japanese had the same opinion at the time.

It's sort of silly to Monday morning quarter back the atomic bomb using 2019 ethics ignoring that some of the moral code we have now was learned both during and after that war. It completely, as you say, belittles the impact of history and lessons learned, as though people should have known all along absent experience.

I'll also say that I'm not sure I'm prepared to agree that sacrificing civilians in order to save the lives of American soldiers/marines/blue jackets constitutes a war crime. I read on this website every couple months someone from the left (or a resident euro) exposing the opinion that the military is a job no more or less valuable than college professors and garbage men. If that's the case, then why isn't it ok to sacrifice a couple hundred thousand Japanese to save a couple hundred thousand Americans, particularly when Americans hold the good cards?
Americans have a history of genociding populations if that is what you consider to be a "Good Card". I bet those segregated army units where the soldiers got substandard supplies and more dangerous assignments compared to the "regular units" was another "Good Card"
 
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Jul 2013
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What makes that hilarious is that it was an actual factor in dropping the atomic bombs on Japan. The Admirals were nervous that a prolonged invasion or blockade could lead to the American people losing patience and support for an unconditional surrender, which is even more interesting given the early Japanese assumption that that the key to achieving a desirable outcome was outlasting American resolve. You are a master war gamer, apparently.
It's sad when people have more interest and experience in playing stupid games created as time wasters than learning actual history.
 
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Devil505

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Jan 2008
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Interesting.
Would we have dropped A-bombs on two major German cities?
How many Americans had ancestors, mabe even still living relatives, in Hamburg or Cologne as compared to Hiroshima or Nagasaki?
I think we would have.

The round the clock fire-bombing of Dresden was just as bad.
Our fear of German science was all the impetus we ever needed to do some pretty awful things.
 
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Tedminator

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Jun 2010
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It's sad when people have more interest and experience in playing stupid games created as time wasters than learning actual history.
Hey now, wargaming not a silly waste of time! SunTzu was a serious wargamer.. maybe a lil too serious since he beheaded the participants that didn't take it seriously and giggled :zany:

Another example are the wargamers that helped win the Battle for the Atlantic during ww2..

lols @ story of newly recruited teenage girls defeating that Royal Navy Admiral during a simulated naval battle (18min mark in video above, but anyone interested in history and wargaming should really watch the whole thing.. its fascinating).
 
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Devil505

Former Staff
Jan 2008
72,017
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Florida
Hey now, wargaming not a silly waste of time! SunTzu was a serious wargamer.. maybe a lil too serious since he beheaded the participants that didn't take it seriously and giggled :zany:

Another example are the wargamers that helped win the Battle for the Atlantic during ww2..

lols @ newly recruited teenage girls beating a Royal Navy Admiral.
"The battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton"
 
Jan 2014
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Here's a quick summary of issues:

Debate over the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - Wikipedia

And a video for our French and/or German speaking members:

Hiroshima, la véritable histoire | ARTE

You may find this documentary by Lucy Van Beek in English under the title Hiroshima: The Aftermath
well, I guess that depends on how you define "right". war is a foolish venture and there are never winners - just losers and worse losers. maybe we should ask if such actions were necessary to accomplish then end of the war. but, that's just me.
 
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