Was Jesus a real person?

Nov 2008
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Not to mention they do not establish what they purport to establish - i.e., that Jesus was direct male-line descendant from King David and King Solomon (without going through Jeconiah). His mother's descent is entirely irrelevant, as is his stepfather's. Even if he was his biological father, he did not have the necessary pedigree. And this all assumes the genealogies are accurate to begin with.
He had the line of David thru his father Joseph. Another fact you ignore


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He had the line of David thru his father Joseph. Another fact you ignore


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According to Christian mythology, Joseph was not his father - God impregnated Mary.

What concerns me about this exchange between you and Ian Jeffrey is the implication that the discrimination the Jewish people have suffered over the centuries, culminating in the indescribable horror which became known as the Holocaust, was some how justified by the Jewish people not accepting a possibly fictitious individual as the 'annointed one'.

I am neither Jewish, nor do I hold a particular brief for the state of Israel, but that is an appalling thing to imply, and you should be ashamed of yourself - I had thought better of you.
 
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Jesus existed and his mother was heartbroken that he wasn’t a doctor. She was also upset that he couldn’t find a nice Jewish girl and was beginning to suspect he might be gay because he was always hanging around with guys. But I blame her for giving him a name that no one had
 
Nov 2008
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According to Christian mythology, Joseph was not his father - God impregnated Mary.

What concerns me about this exchange between you and Ian Jeffrey is the implication that the discrimination the Jewish people have suffered over the centuries, culminating in the indescribable horror which became known as the Holocaust, was some how justified by the Jewish people not accepting a possibly fictitious individual as the 'annointed one'.

I am neither Jewish, nor do I hold a particular brief for the state of Israel, but that is an appalling thing to imply, and you should be ashamed of yourself - I had thought better of you.
This is just a debate where we have disagreements. Taking this to the level of the holocaust was not caused by what Jews believed in their religion. Although Ian runs with that idea every time he’s pinned down in a debate.
If I cried discrimination every time Ian made horrible references to my religion you would never hear a debate. I don’t whine, I still continue to debate.


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Ian Jeffrey

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Jesus fulfilled all the prophecy’s...
No, he did not. You are either ignorant or lying.
... you and you people ignore them like they ignored Moses when he spoke to G-d. Very stubborn people.
Your antisemitism is showing again - not to mention your ignorance of Judaism, and the Jews you excoriate.
 
Nov 2008
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1. Joseph's descent was through Jeconiah, meaning he was disqualified.

2. According to your religion, Joseph was not his father, anyway.
Doesn’t the curse of Jeconiah disqualify Jesus from claiming the throne of David?

One common objection to Jesus’s messianic qualifications is that Matthew traces his descent through Jeconiah (also known as Jehoiachin, or Coniah), whose bloodline was cursed by God in Jeremiah 22:30: “Write this man down as childless, a man who shall not succeed in his days, for none of his offspring shall succeed in sitting on the throne of David and ruling again in Judah.”
In response, some biblical scholars claim that after this curse, the legal right to David’s throne was passed to the house of Nathan—an ancestry that Luke ascribes to Jesus. To use the language of Isaiah, the throne “branched.” God’s unconditional promise to David—that his offspring will reign forever—was still good; it was just transferred to the lineage of a different son of his.

Other scholars, however, argue that the curse of Jeconiah was lifted, as history bore out: the curse said that Jeconiah’s offspring would not rule, yet his grandson Zerubabbel (1 Chronicles 3:16–19) became governor of Judah (Haggai 2:2, 23). Not only that, but after Jeconiah was released from prison, he prospered (Jeremiah 52:31–34), suggesting that God’s favor toward him had returned, perhaps because of his (unrecorded) repentance. Rabbinical tradition actually supports this view.

Or else scholars claim that the curse was meant only for the lifetime of Jeconiah: Jeremiah 22:30 says that he would not see his descendants on the throne “in his days.” Or perhaps the curse applied only to those immediately fathered by Jeconiah, which is why his son Shealtiel never held power but his grandson did. The Two Genealogies of Jesus, the Curse of Jeconiah, and the Royal Line of David

Your religion has spent centuries denying Jesus is the Messiah , because the religious leaders have to. Why? An ancient religion is at stake.


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Ian Jeffrey

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He had the line of David thru his father Joseph. Another fact you ignore


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Christianity preaches that God was his father and Mary was a virgin, therefore Joseph is irrelevant in the lineage of Jesus, and the genealogy as it comes down to us is flawed anyway, as the two gospels that relate his supposed ancestry present differing lines (and no, one of them is not that of Mary, as I have previously demonstrated ~ that story requires one to ignore the qualification of the text itself). This is another example of the glaring failures in Christian logic.
 
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Christianity preaches that God was his father and Mary was a virgin, therefore Joseph is irrelevant in the lineage of Jesus, and the genealogy as it comes down to us is flawed anyway, as the two gospels that relate his supposed ancestry present differing lines (and no, one of them is not that of Mary, as I have previously demonstrated ~ that story requires one to ignore the qualification of the text itself). This is another example of the glaring failures in Christian logic.
Then you believe the scriptures where the Messiah will be born from a virgin. You think God screwed up, but the Messiah had to fulfill prophecy. Through adoption Joseph became his earthly Father. To solve the Jeconiah issue the line went to Nathan. Jeconiah was forgiven anyway and the curse ended.


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