What makes kids violent?

Jul 2014
35,437
9,305
midwest
#81
Probably. More likely.

Evidently, people didn't smoke the devil's lettuce before it was legal.

Online, they are likely to not have a job because they spend all their time on a forum, I guess.
Not as much as now.

Probably, and more likely.

Colorado is now a pothead's paradise.

A stoners utopia.
 

The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
44,639
31,193
Toronto
#82
If you remember that happened as well to the Boston marathon bomber. Girls stood outside the jail screaming for him and asking if he would marry them.

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Fan Club: Boston Bombing Suspect Gets Support From Girls, #FreeJahar Following | HuffPost
There were Tsarnaev support groups over there too, but for different reason: some (plenty) in Russia, especially, of course, fellow ethnic Chechens and others in Caucasus, believed that evil America set him up on trumped up charges and he is innocent


I truly believe it to be a paradox. we insulate our kids from consequences of actions, Where I came from you talked shit, you got hit. Today its "you talk shit, you go to conflict resolution".

There is no outlet anymore.
That's relevant here, in the West. Not so sure about over there. In Russia, they still don't really do "conflict resolution",m among kids or grown ups...

When I went to school if you had a beef with another you met after shool and fought it out, with your fists.
No firearms, no knives, no weapons. A guy that did pull a weapon would be jumped on by every boy in the crowd, labeed a chicken-shit and a pussy. His standing in the social life of that scededhool was then shit.

Or you went to the coach. He gave you boxing gloves, acted as a ref and you fought it out. Win or lose you were expected to shake hands at the end and the conflict was over.

And no one was seriously hurt. A chipped tooth, a broken nose, I got a mild concussion once, little worse than that. certainly no one was killed or maimed.
In Soviet Union, since the early decades, they had these delinquent gangs among youth, called "shpana", these boys who wondered the streets, unsupervised, mostly from bad families, stole from or even robbed people, got drunk, got into fights


It was especially bad in late 1920s and early 30s (after WWI and the Civil War) and late 1940s (after WWII), because each of those conflicts left millions of feral orphans on the streets of Russia and USSR



There was actually a movie in Russia, few years ago, "Svolochi" ("Bastards")

based on a book, about a bunch of such kids, during WWII, who were taken to a special camp and trained by the Red Army to assassinate German officers and do other such suicide missions, essentially, behind enemy lines

Apparently, this really happened back then... These kids had no family, nothing to lose, and also no fear or inhibitions; and plenty had already, by then, taken human life, on the streets and weren't squeamish about that either... As it says on that DVD cover, they had "No love, no pity, no mercy"... Perfect soldiers...

Very controversial movie, at the time. Many did not want to talk about the Red Army actually using, essentially, child soldiers... Many citizens angrily denounced it all as slander...

Until some surviving "Bastards" actually came forward to themselves talk about it all, on TV...

Anyway, but, that petered out by early 60s, I would say. There were big crackdowns, throughout the 40s and the 50s, on post-War crime.

It got to the point that, actually, armed GRU and NKVD/KGB agents, men and women, went out disguised as regular civilians, deliberately attracting gangs in various crime infested cities to try to mug and rob them and such, and would simply kill the criminals on the spot

As a result, the 60s and 70s were probably the safest and most peaceful decades ever, in Russian history for sure, police back then didn't even carry weapons!


Boxing became popular back then

There was fighting in schools, mainly among boys and, according, to my own uncle for example, it was much more honorable than today, they had rules: one on one means one on one, nobody jumping in from the side; no hotting a guy already on the ground; above the belt only; no weapons; etc.

In the 80s, karate and other Eastern martial arts became popular

It was actually against the law for Soviet civilians back then, until 1988, I think, to study karate. It was only legal for KGB agents and military personnel, no joke :D Which, of course, only made it more attractive to many young people. Illegal underground dojos popped up all over the place back then, in basements and such.

This influenced schoolyard brawls too: there was now much more kicks and such being used. A lot of old rules, such as hitting below the belt, went out the window.

Add to it the now deteriorating crime situation by second half of the 80s, when the first new modern Russian mafia gangs already began to emerge on the streets, as the government and the police became weakened under Gorbachev


The post-Soviet 90s were an even more brutal continuation of the 80s. Crime exploded everywhere. The new mafia "brigades' were now armed to the teeth, they had fucking RPGs, no joke

There was widespread unemployment and poverty. Families were broke. Schools were broke. Whole fucking regions were broke. Kids were aimless and looking for trouble. By the time I arrived in Moscow in 1999, personally in my school there, it was normal for a lad to carry a switchblade in his pocket. I didn't, at first; but quickly started, after getting shanked myself one day...

Today, Putin claims everything is better. Less crime and such.

However, the reality may well be that, as I translated here, the police simply massage the statistics to create an appearance of the reality that Putin wants: How Russian police hides crime

There are many regions, and many schools in them, where nothing changed, since the 90s... And some where it has gotten even worse... :(
 

The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
44,639
31,193
Toronto
#84
Sometimes kids are just born assholes. But mostly its the parents...see an asshole kid and you end up finding out something is wrong at home.
And yet, the son of an alcoholic fisherman could become one of his nation's greatest ever scientists, and a talented artist to boot: Mikhail Lomonosov

:)

I agree that parents have a big influence. But, not always. Some people develop and become successful IN SPITE of their home situation...
 
Nov 2017
448
545
Colorado
#85
Sometimes kids are just born assholes. But mostly its the parents...see an asshole kid and you end up finding out something is wrong at home.
It's more than families. It becomes cultures.

I've met many decent Russians and Ukrainians. But their culture is corrupt in a way that makes US corruption look pretty good, and the "good guys" mostly keep their heads down, out of necessity. The judicial system absolutely cannot be expected to serve "justice."
 
Sep 2012
3,706
3,579
California
#88
It's more than families. It becomes cultures.

I've met many decent Russians and Ukrainians. But their culture is corrupt in a way that makes US corruption look pretty good, and the "good guys" mostly keep their heads down, out of necessity. The judicial system absolutely cannot be expected to serve "justice."
I agree, its very complicated.
 
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The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
44,639
31,193
Toronto
#89
Crimea is a whole special case in itself... Even before 2014, within Ukraine, after '91, they actually always been known as a heavily criminal area. Always had own powerful organised crime groups, which tightly and violently controlled things, so that even guys from Ukraine's other mafia centres, now-separatist Donetsk, and Odessa, would not try setting foot in there.

They also, the Slavic mob, waged war with Crimean Tatar gangs, who tried to set up own turfs when they began returning from exile (from Central Asia, where Stalin sent them after WWII) in the 80s and 90s. The Slavs were better armed and the local police were usually on their side, so, the Tatars usually suffered much heavier casualties.

There was, for example, an incident in early 2000s, where Slavic villagers clashed with Tatars who had illegally taken over some land on their fields to build homes for themselves, as they often practised (because many of their own original villages and homes were already settled by Russians and Ukrainians when they came back and they had nowhere else to live). The Tatars were armed with hunting rifles and clubs and such. The Slavic villagers called the mob for help, who showed up with pistols and AKs. Long story short, five Tatars were killed there. Nobody ever convicted for it.

After 2014, I believe the local bosses initially celebrated, because one of their own Sergey Aksyonov, aka "Goblin", whom you posted up there, was made Governor by Putin, things were looking good for them. But it quickly turned into a bloodbath, as the locals quickly found themselves under assault by much larger and more powerful "brigades" from mainland Russia, who moved in to take over their narcotics, illegal tobacco, and other thriving markets there. Some bosses from Donetsk also tried to grab their slices of the pie, but it usually did not end well for them, getting in the way of the mainland organisations.

In 2015, for example, legendary Donetsk crime boss Mikhail Lyashko, aka "Misha Kosoy", who was said to have ran the counterfeit alcohol and tobacco business in all of Donbass

was riddled with bullets in his car in Gurzuf (suburb of Yalta) along with his two bodyguards: В Крыму убит криминальный авторитет Мишаня Косой, один из самых близких к Ринату Ахметову. Донецкие блатные срочно выехали в Крым - НОВОСТИ - Gorlovka.ua

Among many other deaths there post-2014. It became crazy there, for real. I know folks here, originally from Crimea, one guy told me, his brother has a grocery shop there. He been paying "protection" for years to some local guys. Then, December 2014, some others clearly from the mainland (by their accents he could tell, Crimeans speak Russian differently than Mainlanders) came in, and one says, you gonna pay us now. He says, well, I am already paying so and so [names the local boss]. Mainland guy takes out his phone, shows him a pic of that guy he just named, with a bullet hole in his forehead, him you are talking about? The guy had no more questions or objections, as you imagine...

At least, apparently, it has quieted down now. Late last year, there was some kind of a big conference in Moscow, where all kinds of mainland bosses came together with Donetsk guys and Crimea guys, and finally redivided everything in Crimea for good, all the turfs and the business. The locals, obviously, had to give up a lot, but, at least, there's peace now...

Best predictor of violent kids is single mother households. Second, present but abusive father.
Indeed. And that's another big issue over there. Russia is a world leader in divorces: Divorce rate in Russia will shock you: 829 divorces per 1000 marriages (2017 statistics) | EM

Lots of broken families there :(
 
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