Why we need less college and more reality?

Ian Jeffrey

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Mar 2013
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CEO, CTO, COO, Marketing Director, Creative Director, Research Analyst to name a few.
Indeed, we should be promoting more business education in schools. Hard to start and run a business without basic knowledge of how to do so (not impossible, but learn-as-you-go in this area is no fun). Otherwise, as a practical matter (which is what is under discussion here), a plumber, for example, would be stuck always working for someone else.

And even apart from that ... to reiterate @Leo2's point, why is it undesirable to have a carpenter who can discuss Shakespeare or Kant while working? Not that he would be required to, if he prefers baseball ... but why not have the opportunity to do both? I am reminded of Thomas Hardy's novel Jude the Obscure, in which a 19th-century young man (Hardy was essentially writing of his own times) very much desires higher education, but never had the chance, and so had the more mundane life he feared and died in obscurity (hence the title). (Certainly there is much more going on than simply an educational theme, but they are not much relevant to the topic here.) It seems the underlying theme of the OP is anti-intellectualism, not merely practical issues of financing higher education.
 
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Dec 2018
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Oh sorry,forgot about the business degrees.

Guess what that gets you : bank teller.
Funny because it's true. OTOH, of a group of bank tellers, it's the ones with a four-year degree, preferably a business degree, that are promoted. Obviously competence plays a part, but let's not deny that people need the credentials too.

A person could be a truck driver, but if their company wants to promote someone to management, all things being equal, they'll take the one with the college degree.
 
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Ian Jeffrey

Council Hall
Mar 2013
78,746
48,880
Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
Funny because it's true. OTOH, of a group of bank tellers, it's the ones with a four-year degree, preferably a business degree, that are promoted. Obviously competence plays a part, but let's not deny that people need the credentials too.

A person could be a truck driver, but if their company wants to promote someone to management, all things being equal, they'll take the one with the college degree.
On the other hand, there is the Peter Principle.
 
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Oct 2014
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Funny because it's true. OTOH, of a group of bank tellers, it's the ones with a four-year degree, preferably a business degree, that are promoted. Obviously competence plays a part, but let's not deny that people need the credentials too.

A person could be a truck driver, but if their company wants to promote someone to management, all things being equal, they'll take the one with the college degree.
That is true until the saturation point is reached, then those without the business degree (which people take on aspiration of starting a business) will not be selected since there's a significant pool of people with the degrees looking for work.

At that point, we are talking about the requirement of a degree that gets considered as evidence of a work ethic if nothing else. These aren't high paying jobs either.
 
Dec 2018
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the Heart of America
That is true until the saturation point is reached, then those without the business degree (which people take on aspiration of starting a business) will not be selected since there's a significant pool of people with the degrees looking for work.

At that point, we are talking about the requirement of a degree that gets considered as evidence of a work ethic if nothing else. These aren't high paying jobs either.
I think we're mixing a few apples and oranges. I think you and I are agreed that college isn't for everyone, much less making it "free" to everyone (meaning the middle class takes it up the kazoo once again). I do believe those who want a successful career need additional education but that can come from jobs programs (public or private), VoTech, College or the military. The latter isn't for everyone and a BCD or DD can severely limit their opportunities for the rest of their lives. Heck, even an OTH can hinder them in a tight job market.
 
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In some states entry level teachers make $15-$20 an hour with a Masters degree and debt. Now imagine what happens if the min wage is $15 an hour. Because most school budgets are based on property taxes its entirely possible we will see McDonalds workers making similar wages to entry level teachers. In my town EMTs make $13 an hour.
It is a disgrace that teacher should make $15 an hour. A fraction of what we pay accountants.
 

Ian Jeffrey

Council Hall
Mar 2013
78,746
48,880
Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
It is a disgrace that teacher should make $15 an hour. A fraction of what we pay accountants.
... who learn from teachers. The reality is that education is not highly valued in the United States.