Why we need less college and more reality?

Oct 2014
33,166
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C-A-N-A-D-A-Eh
I think we're mixing a few apples and oranges. I think you and I are agreed that college isn't for everyone, much less making it "free" to everyone (meaning the middle class takes it up the kazoo once again). I do believe those who want a successful career need additional education but that can come from jobs programs (public or private), VoTech, College or the military. The latter isn't for everyone and a BCD or DD can severely limit their opportunities for the rest of their lives. Heck, even an OTH can hinder them in a tight job market.
We are mostly in agreement.

There's really no reason for there to be the requirement of a degree for a menial job that doesn't really have a huge prospect for advancement. What's an alternative? Encouraging young people to take on responsibilities that can be converted to job skills. Can't even have a kid who wants experience for very little pay / tips only to learn because nobody will be the min wag + insurance + taxes to help someone learn the skills that will make them a useful and productive employee.
 
Mar 2012
60,106
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New Hampshire
It's set locally since about 92% of schools are funded locally, not federally.
Which is part of the problem. Go look up salaries for teachers and then look up property values. They are in line. If the average prices of homes in a given area is 250K or more the teachers typically are paid fairly well. When homes dip under 200K the teachers salaries go down dramatically. Municipalities have to come up with a way to pay for those salaries primarily based on the value of real estate. Its a horrible system.
 

HayJenn

Former Staff
Jul 2014
72,715
64,099
CA
... who learn from teachers. The reality is that education is not highly valued in the United States.

Agree. And that is just sad. How can we remain a global power without a good education system?

In fact, teacher's salaries have been declining for years.

Economists following the teacher protests in Oklahoma, West Virginia, Kentucky and Arizona say they saw this coming. As the costs of living, higher education, healthcare and retirement are rising, researchers studying salary trends note that the average pay for teachers has dipped.

That’s a really bad situation to be in, being asked to pay more as your pay is actually declining,” says Dr. Sylvia Allegretto, an economist at the Institute for Research on Labor and Employment at the University of California, Berkeley. “In real terms, meaning after you adjust for inflation, the average U.S. teacher today makes $30 less a week than they used to.”

According to data from the National Education Association (NEA), constant pay for educators— meaning pay adjusted for the cost of living in each state as determined by the Consumer Price Index—in some states has decreased as much as 15 percent between the years 2000 through 2017. An educator living in a place such as West Virginia (where teachers went on strike in March) makes about 9 percent less today than they did back in 2000.

The Data Tells All: Teacher Salaries Have Been Declining For Years | EdSurge News

I mean what person who spent the time and money going to college is going to interested in a job that pays $10-$12 dollars an hour?

God bless the teachers who stay on the job and protest for higher wages and smaller classrooms.
 
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Mar 2012
60,106
41,528
New Hampshire
Agree. And that is just sad. How can we remain a global power without a good education system?

In fact, teacher's salaries have been declining for years.

Economists following the teacher protests in Oklahoma, West Virginia, Kentucky and Arizona say they saw this coming. As the costs of living, higher education, healthcare and retirement are rising, researchers studying salary trends note that the average pay for teachers has dipped.

That’s a really bad situation to be in, being asked to pay more as your pay is actually declining,” says Dr. Sylvia Allegretto, an economist at the Institute for Research on Labor and Employment at the University of California, Berkeley. “In real terms, meaning after you adjust for inflation, the average U.S. teacher today makes $30 less a week than they used to.”

According to data from the National Education Association (NEA), constant pay for educators— meaning pay adjusted for the cost of living in each state as determined by the Consumer Price Index—in some states has decreased as much as 15 percent between the years 2000 through 2017. An educator living in a place such as West Virginia (where teachers went on strike in March) makes about 9 percent less today than they did back in 2000.

The Data Tells All: Teacher Salaries Have Been Declining For Years | EdSurge News

I mean what person who spent the time and money going to college is going to interested in a job that pays $10-$12 dollars an hour?

God bless the teachers who stay on the job and protest for higher wages and smaller classrooms.
Lots of jobs pay 10-12 an hour. LNAs and many in healthcare also make around that. Check out this link by age and salary. Keep in mind thats nationally.

20 to 24 years: $525 weekly/$27,300 annually
25 to 34 years: $776 weekly/$40,352 annually
35 to 44 years: $976 weekly/$50,752 annually
45 to 54 years: $975 weekly/$50,700 annually
55 to 64 years: $966 weekly/$50,232 annually

Here’s how much the average American earns at every age
 
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Dec 2018
9,198
7,110
the Heart of America
We are mostly in agreement.

There's really no reason for there to be the requirement of a degree for a menial job that doesn't really have a huge prospect for advancement. What's an alternative? Encouraging young people to take on responsibilities that can be converted to job skills. Can't even have a kid who wants experience for very little pay / tips only to learn because nobody will be the min wag + insurance + taxes to help someone learn the skills that will make them a useful and productive employee.
Agreed. If one is a complete fucking dumbass or retard, then why go to college? OTOH, if, after college, they need a job and being a janitor is the only one, then they should take it while looking for a better one.

That said, most people are not that fucking stupid and can benefit from higher education meaning post-HS education. Just not necessarily college or a four-year degree.
 
Dec 2018
9,198
7,110
the Heart of America
Which is part of the problem. Go look up salaries for teachers and then look up property values. They are in line. If the average prices of homes in a given area is 250K or more the teachers typically are paid fairly well. When homes dip under 200K the teachers salaries go down dramatically. Municipalities have to come up with a way to pay for those salaries primarily based on the value of real estate. Its a horrible system.
While I agree, there's a "so what?" factor since money is relative.

Compare having a 20 year old 3 bedroom, 2 bath, 2 car garage home in Los Angeles and having one in Tulsa. A teacher making $50K is much more likely to afford a home in Tulsa than Los Angeles. OTOH, even a teacher making $100K is less likely to afford as nice a home as the one in Tulsa making half as much. That's not even factoring in state taxes, real estate taxes, utility costs, the price of gasoline or the distance they'd have to drive to work. (Hint, in LA 90 minutes each way is common. In Tulsa, 30 minutes)

Examples:
Tulsa, OK 3-Bedroom Homes for Sale - realtor.com®

Los Angeles, CA 3-Bedroom Homes for Sale - realtor.com®
 

HayJenn

Former Staff
Jul 2014
72,715
64,099
CA
Lots of jobs pay 10-12 an hour. LNAs and many in healthcare also make around that. Check out this link by age and salary. Keep in mind thats nationally.

20 to 24 years: $525 weekly/$27,300 annually
25 to 34 years: $776 weekly/$40,352 annually
35 to 44 years: $976 weekly/$50,752 annually
45 to 54 years: $975 weekly/$50,700 annually
55 to 64 years: $966 weekly/$50,232 annually

Here’s how much the average American earns at every age
Thanks for that

Another part of the problem

Wage inequality just keeps getting worse and worse.