Yes, Democrats Should Impeach Trump—and Make Mitch McConnell Defend His Acquittal

Mar 2012
57,873
39,432
New Hampshire
#81
You have no idea what I think. You're just assuming. I thought Trump would win the election. I never thought Stormy Daniels would bring him down. Although, that's another of his criminal actions, paying her off to keep her quiet during the campaign. I think the Mueller report should lead to impeachment because Mueller clearly lays out Trump's obstruction of justice. (BTW, have you read it? Do you know what it actually says? I don't think you do.)That is exactly how it's supposed to work. And comparing what Clinton did to all of the criminal activities of Trump is ridiculous. It would be morally wrong for the Dems not to impeach him.
Morally yes, realistically no. Thats the problem today with politics. Nobody wants to risk anything and potentially give help to the opponent. I do think 50 years from now youth will look back at several issues not just Trump but also the Iraq War etc and really wonder what we were thinking.
 
Jul 2007
76,364
67,327
So. Md.
#82
Morally yes, realistically no. Thats the problem today with politics. Nobody wants to risk anything and potentially give help to the opponent. I do think 50 years from now youth will look back at several issues not just Trump but also the Iraq War etc and really wonder what we were thinking.
I disagree politically as well as morally. I think everyone has taken all the wrong lessons from Clinton's impeachment.
 
Mar 2012
57,873
39,432
New Hampshire
#83
I disagree politically as well as morally. I think everyone has taken all the wrong lessons from Clinton's impeachment.
Agree. But politics has become a game where each side wants wins. They arent willing to risk anything for whats right. Everytime someone in the media brings up Trump and impeachment they go right to Clinton and talk about how it helped him and made him even more popular.
 
Likes: Jets
Jul 2007
76,364
67,327
So. Md.
#84
Agree. But politics has become a game where each side wants wins. They arent willing to risk anything for whats right. Everytime someone in the media brings up Trump and impeachment they go right to Clinton and talk about how it helped him and made him even more popular.
And his impeachment helped Al Gore lose. The Republicans are outrageous and audacious. Democrats are afraid their own shadows. While Republicans are morally bankrupt at this point, Dems could take a page from their book and try being outrageous and audacious once in a while. And in this case it would be the morally righteous thing to do. But we don't really care about doing the right thing. Yes, Trump must be kept from getting a second term, but not impeaching him is a mistake. I understand some Dems are in red or purple districts are afraid of it, but we need to go through the process and show these people how he has repeatedly broken the law and abused his office.

I honestly believe it would go the way it went with Nixon. Clinton's impeachment is a very different kettle of fish from Nixon and Trump. Once people were shown the clear violations of the law that Nixon was guilty of, they turned against him. The same would happen for many people when it comes to Trump. Most of his supporters will always support him. But fuck them. They're lost in the wilderness and there is no hope for them at this point. But the majority of Americans will get behind the impeachment of Trump once they understand his crimes and depth of his criminality. I truly and honestly believe that.
 
Likes: bajisima
Mar 2012
57,873
39,432
New Hampshire
#85
And his impeachment helped Al Gore lose. The Republicans are outrageous and audacious. Democrats are afraid their own shadows. While Republicans are morally bankrupt at this point, Dems could take a page from their book and try being outrageous and audacious once in a while. And in this case it would be the morally righteous thing to do. But we don't really care about doing the right thing. Yes, Trump must be kept from getting a second term, but not impeaching him is a mistake. I understand some Dems are in red or purple districts are afraid of it, but we need to go through the process and show these people how he has repeatedly broken the law and abused his office.

I honestly believe it would go the way it went with Nixon. Clinton's impeachment is a very different kettle of fish from Nixon and Trump. Once people were shown the clear violations of the law that Nixon was guilty of, they turned against him. The same would happen for many people when it comes to Trump. Most of his supporters will always support him. But fuck them. They're lost in the wilderness and there is no hope for them at this point. But the majority of Americans will get behind the impeachment of Trump once they understand his crimes and depth of his criminality. I truly and honestly believe that.
I think part of the problem is that yes the majority of the country will get behind impeachment. The majority already doesnt like him and could easily be shown impeachment is the right path. But his followers and the "silent support" he had in 2016 is what is scaring people. All they have to be is in the right states and areas and he can win again. As Nate Silver has talked about, "Trump could conceivably lose by 10 million votes in 2020 yet still win." That sticks in peoples minds. With Nixon I dont think he ever had that support that would follow him off a cliff. Trump does. Thats the difference. He really could shoot someone on 5th avenue and he would have his 35-38% solid. That changes things a bit. We are in unchartered territory here.
 
Jul 2007
76,364
67,327
So. Md.
#86
I think part of the problem is that yes the majority of the country will get behind impeachment. The majority already doesnt like him and could easily be shown impeachment is the right path. But his followers and the "silent support" he had in 2016 is what is scaring people. All they have to be is in the right states and areas and he can win again. As Nate Silver has talked about, "Trump could conceivably lose by 10 million votes in 2020 yet still win." That sticks in peoples minds. With Nixon I dont think he ever had that support that would follow him off a cliff. Trump does. Thats the difference. He really could shoot someone on 5th avenue and he would have his 35-38% solid. That changes things a bit. We are in unchartered territory here.
But I think the silent supporters from 2016 will turn against him, if they haven't already. Like the ones who voted for him who also voted for Obama. Those are the people the Dems need to get back.
 
Mar 2012
57,873
39,432
New Hampshire
#87
But I think the silent supporters from 2016 will turn against him, if they haven't already. Like the ones who voted for him who also voted for Obama. Those are the people the Dems need to get back.
I think a lot of them might be gone. They are old fashioned blue collar workers who dont like the "new democrats." I work with 4 of them who have been lifelong dems who went with Trump because they feel dems are more interested in young college educated voters. They are old school union guys who are for tariffs and against trade. Now they would likely vote for Biden over Trump (to them he is a great democrat) but nobody else. They think they are all latte sipping coastal elitists now. Democrats appear to be gaining former republican suburbanites that used to be in the Bush or Romney camps as well as urban millennials. Its bound to change the party.
 

Jets

Former Staff
Feb 2011
23,077
13,524
New York
#88
This debate over impeachment is highlighting the real issue in American politics. The incessant need for our parties to win majorities has overshadowed other aspects of their jobs. Legislators are more concerned with re-election campaigns than working on legislation and serving as the Constitutional check on the Executive branch. When any political party vacillates over meeting its obligation in order to NOT risk an election, it speaks volumes about our government.

The Democratic Party needs to do its job, regardless of the 2020 election.

The GOP needs to do its job and deal with the imperial President who is representing their party. Enough with the party above country mantra.

This should not be D vs R, this should be Congress vs the President as laid out in the Constitution!
 
Likes: bajisima
Jun 2014
49,413
50,282
United States
#89
The Republicans are outrageous and audacious. Democrats are afraid their own shadows. While Republicans are morally bankrupt at this point, Dems could take a page from their book and try being outrageous and audacious once in a while.

We already have one party that is morally bankrupt and has no respect for the rule of law. If the Democrats decide to fight fire with fire, then I and many other Americans will be left with no political party to support. I agree that Trump deserves to be impeached, but unless the House Democrats can make a case that turns public opinion strongly enough to force the Senate Republicans to get onboard with a conviction, then impeachment would be futile.

Al Gore didn't lose because of Clinton's impeachment. He lost primarily because he didn't run an effective campaign. It certainly didn't help his case that so many left-wingers though it would be politically strategic to vote for Ralph Nader, rather than supporting a Democrat who didn't pander to their extremist ideology.

If you really want a political party that plays dirty and panders to extremists like the GOP does, then start a new party. Most Democrats quite simply aren't on-board with your vision of what the Democratic Party should be.
 
Jul 2007
76,364
67,327
So. Md.
#90
We already have one party that is morally bankrupt and has no respect for the rule of law. If the Democrats decide to fight fire with fire, then I and many other Americans will be left with no political party to support. I agree that Trump deserves to be impeached, but unless the House Democrats can make a case that turns public opinion strongly enough to force the Senate Republicans to get onboard with a conviction, then impeachment would be futile.

Al Gore didn't lose because of Clinton's impeachment. He lost primarily because he didn't run an effective campaign. It certainly didn't help his case that so many left-wingers though it would be politically strategic to vote for Ralph Nader, rather than supporting a Democrat who didn't pander to their extremist ideology.

If you really want a political party that plays dirty and panders to extremists like the GOP does, then start a new party. Most Democrats quite simply aren't on-board with your vision of what the Democratic Party should be.
Whoa!!!! I'm talking about being outrageous and audacious in not allowing anyone, including Trump, to be above the law. And I don't want the Dems to do it all the time. Only in rare cases where it is called for. As has been pointed out, if you read the piece I linked to, so what if the Senate won't vote to convict him? We stain Trump with impeachment and blame Moscow Mitch for not convicting.

Clinton's impeachment was a factor in Gore's loss. Why else would Bush have used the slogan that he'd bring honor and dignity back the the White House.